One Lane vs Two Lane Comparison

[DeletedUser12778]

Hey, great guide

I just don't understand why you rate Business Center has bad? to me it seems an upgrade to the Car Factory which is rated good

 

[DeletedUser100008]

I would also disagree with Business Centers being rubbish...
The only thing they lose to the Junkyard on is the cost - granted, they lose by a long way, but only in coins; their supplies cost is still very low...
At this level I seem to have shedloads of spare coins anyway, but even if I had equal coins and supplies I'm going to be building Shopping Malls, which are massively expensive in supplies and would therefore even things out...

Business Centers are more efficient than Junkyards in supplies/area, and being bigger will produce more benefit from motivation.
4 BCs produce almost exactly the same supplies as 5 JYs, take up the same space, but save you 500 happiness and only require 4 motivations instead of 5...
I'm not saying BCs are definitely better than JYs, but they're definitely not at the opposite end of the spectrum :p

 

[DeletedUser7719]

Hey, great guide

I just don't understand why you rate Business Center has bad? to me it seems an upgrade to the Car Factory which is rated good

I would also disagree with Business Centers being rubbish...
The only thing they lose to the Junkyard on is the cost - granted, they lose by a long way, but only in coins; their supplies cost is still very low...
At this level I seem to have shedloads of spare coins anyway, but even if I had equal coins and supplies I'm going to be building Shopping Malls, which are massively expensive in supplies and would therefore even things out...

Business Centers are more efficient than Junkyards in supplies/area, and being bigger will produce more benefit from motivation.
4 BCs produce almost exactly the same supplies as 5 JYs, take up the same space, but save you 500 happiness and only require 4 motivations instead of 5...
I'm not saying BCs are definitely better than JYs, but they're definitely not at the opposite end of the spectrum :p

BC are about equal to Junkyards (since Junkyards cost way less population for about the same supply/space) which is why they are considered bad (or good would probably be a better one category imo). Getting to a new age should mean upgrades, not finding space to replace buildings that give the same benefit.

 

[DeletedUser]

To clarify, here's my reasoning:

Business centers and Logistics centers both require more coins, supplies, population (and happiness) than junkyards. This doesn't automatically make them bad, but what does make them bad is that they don't really compensate in any way, other than the fact that you can't collect junk art for RR's (random rewards) in CE I guess (and they're 20% more efficient with motivation, which is negligent).

The reason why I ranked them at the bottom, but not car factories, is because car factories are available in the same age as junkyards (and they're in an earlier column of research).

I guess the one reason (besides RR's) that you'd consider building either BC's or LC's is if they fit better with your town design. But if you are happy with your junkyard placement, there's really no reason to change.

All that said, you guys are right: they aren't terrible. I'll move them up to the good list.

 

[DeletedUser]

Thanks for the CE update. Great help this guide :-)

 

[DeletedUser12778]

To clarify, here's my reasoning:

Business centers and Logistics centers both require more coins, supplies, population (and happiness) than junkyards. This doesn't automatically make them bad, but what does make them bad is that they don't really compensate in any way, other than the fact that you can't collect junk art for RR's (random rewards) in CE I guess (and they're 20% more efficient with motivation, which is negligent).

The reason why I ranked them at the bottom, but not car factories, is because car factories are available in the same age as junkyards (and they're in an earlier column of research).

I guess the one reason (besides RR's) that you'd consider building either BC's or LC's is if they fit better with your town design. But if you are happy with your junkyard placement, there's really no reason to change.

All that said, you guys are right: they aren't terrible. I'll move them up to the good list.

You're right basically if you have a light house of alexandria it is better to have BC, with a LoA 105% bonus and 10 BCs running a cicle of two 8h, one 4h and two 1h it gives you more supply than having 12 Junkyard doing the same cicle
BC- 758268
Junk - 696532,8
if you have a royal albert i don't think it will make a big diference

 

[DeletedUser7719]

You're right basically if you have a light house of alexandria it is better to have BC, with a LoA 105% bonus and 10 BCs running a cicle of two 8h, one 4h and two 1h it gives you more supply than having 12 Junkyard doing the same cicle
BC- 758268
Junk - 696532,8
if you have a royal albert i don't think it will make a big diference

It still costs more population to hold the BCs, so you need to factor that in as well

 

[DeletedUser12778]

It still costs more population to hold the BCs, so you need to factor that in as well

yes here i'm just considering how to maximize the supply production, it costs around 1400 more population than the junks

 

[DeletedUser7719]

If you're fine with population, the building isn't bad for sure, but being a hardcore player (or I think that's what I would like to categorize myself :p). I want to use all the population I have toward goods/military/production, so I always factor in the population needed for supplies by finding which house I'm using and how much pop/space it has, add the amount of happiness needed to keep the population delighted, and add that amount of space needed to the original space of the building (plus the extra space for roads on each building) to calculate the true efficiency of the production building.

Looks a bit like this: http://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/showthread.php?27108-PME-rant&p=151853&viewfull=1#post151853
(Note that the Junkyard affected the demand for happiness back then, so now it is even better than before)

 

[DeletedUser15501]

I have 10 BC's in my city, that would be 12.5 Junkyards that could fit in their space. The junkyards would produce about the same total amount of supplies but they need 1250 more happiness and also consume 2.5 more motivations that could be used for motivating coins instead. So for the same amount of supply production I get some more coins and I also get at least one extra random reward each day. They do cost 1200 population more however, but since I'm also saving 1250 happiness I could build a bungalow or something for the space I can save on happiness stuff and pretty much compensate those 1200 extra pop. Not that I need the population myself but just to show why I think BC's are always superior to Junkyards even if you care about population.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

If you need 1200 pop, that also needs an additional 1200*1.4= 1,680 happiness to keep that population delighted, so you actually need an extra 1200 pop AND 430 happiness compared to the Junkyard

 

[DeletedUser12778]

If you're fine with population, the building isn't bad for sure, but being a hardcore player (or I think that's what I would like to categorize myself :p). I want to use all the population I have toward goods/military/production, so I always factor in the population needed for supplies by finding which house I'm using and how much pop/space it has, add the amount of happiness needed to keep the population delighted, and add that amount of space needed to the original space of the building (plus the extra space for roads on each building) to calculate the true efficiency of the production building.

Looks a bit like this: http://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/showthread.php?27108-PME-rant&p=151853&viewfull=1#post151853
(Note that the Junkyard affected the demand for happiness back then, so now it is even better than before)

I understand your point here but i'm not really that perfectionist and I'm not trying to say that junkyard is not the best in most of the cases but using the example: the same city setup in my last post to achieve the same productions levels you need 10 BCs or 14 Junks

14 junks consume 6118 pop + 7000 happiness + 280 squares + 56 for roads and produce 645776,6667 supply per day(it is a little more the BCs but you can't have half o a junkyard in your city)

10 BCs consume 6660 pop + 5000 happiness + 250 squares + 50 for roads and produces 631890 supply per day

Since i'm using bungallows (i'll probably upgrade my houses latter but not sure what's best for my city yet) Population/tile: 109.5 Junks take 55,87 tiles and BCs 60.82

I'll upgrade to Shopping malls so Happiness/tile: 122.50 so Junk 127,06 tiles and Bcs 116,93 tiles

junk 519,03 tiles for 645776,67 supply = 1244, 20 supply per tile per day

Bcs 477, 75 tiles for 631890 supply = 1322, 64 supply per tile per day

I think that's it =)

So BCs is not that bad

 

[DeletedUser15501]

If you need 1200 pop, that also needs an additional 1200*1.4= 1,680 happiness to keep that population delighted, so you actually need an extra 1200 pop AND 430 happiness compared to the Junkyard

That's assuming you had used up a perfect 100% of your population with those junkyards. But you are correct, I forgot to calculate the extra happiness needed for the 1200 population. Still I'd prefer BC's though for more random rewards and coins, 1200 pop is one small house and 430 happiness is like 3 or 4 squares.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

I can't tell if you factored in the happiness to keep the city delight, so I run the calculations myself with using these stats:

10 BCs running a cicle of two 8h, one 4h and two 1h it gives you more supply than having 12 Junkyard doing the same cicle
BC- 758268
Junk - 696532,8

12 junks consume 5244 pop + 7341,6 happiness for pop + 6000 happiness + 240 squares + 48 roads (and produce 696532,8 supplies)

10 BCs 6660 pop + 9324 happiness for pop + 5000 happiness + 250 squares + 50 for roads (and produce 758268 supply per day)

If your using bungalows:
Junks need an extra 47,88 tiles for pop itself plus another (5244 * 1.4 / 122,5) 59,9 tiles to keep that 5244 population delighted

BCs need an extra 60,82 for pop plus another 76,1 tiles to keep the pop delighted

Now the extra breaking happiness is 49,0 for junkyards and 40,8 for BCs (this is for breaking happiness alone. I don't see where you got the higher numbers unless you added the other happiness or tiles taken with it)

So Junkyards need (240+48+47,88+59,9+49,0)= 444,78 tiles for 696532,8 supplies = 1566,0 supply per tile per day

BCs need 477,72 tiles for 758268 = 1587,3 supply per tile per day

(Weird, I never got more for the BCs before, but I don't ask for motivation of my own supplies, so maybe that was it). anyways, junkyards do 1,34% worse than a BC. That is a very, very small increase (and large cost) from PME to CE which was why Huscarl probably considered it bad (though I would personally put it under good)


EDIT:
Duh, I was using condominiums for my population. That's why I'm getting different numbers. I get Junkyards are 2.5% better than BCs though

 

[DeletedUser12778]

I can't tell if you factored in the happiness to keep the city delight, so I run the calculations myself with using these stats:

12 junks consume 5244 pop + 7341,6 happiness for pop + 6000 happiness + 240 squares + 48 roads (and produce 696532,8 supplies)

10 BCs 6660 pop + 9324 happiness for pop + 5000 happiness + 250 squares + 50 for roads (and produce 758268 supply per day)

If your using bungalows:
Junks need an extra 47,88 tiles for pop itself plus another (5244 * 1.4 / 122,5) 59,9 tiles to keep that 5244 population delighted

BCs need an extra 60,82 for pop plus another 76,1 tiles to keep the pop delighted

Now the extra breaking happiness is 49,0 for junkyards and 40,8 for BCs (this is for breaking happiness alone. I don't see where you got the higher numbers unless you added the other happiness or tiles taken with it)

So Junkyards need (240+48+47,88+59,9+49,0)= 444,78 tiles for 696532,8 supplies = 1566,0 supply per tile per day

BCs need 477,72 tiles for 758268 = 1587,3 supply per tile per day

(Weird, I never got more for the BCs before, but I don't ask for motivation of my own supplies, so maybe that was it). anyways, junkyards do 1,34% worse than a BC. That is a very, very small increase (and large cost) from PME to CE which was why Huscarl probably considered it bad (though I would personally put it under good)

I'm not considering motivations, maybe i got something wrong, i'll review it when i have time, maybe i forgot the happiness from the roads

 

[DeletedUser15501]

(Weird, I never got more for the BCs before, but I don't ask for motivation of my own supplies, so maybe that was it). anyways, junkyards do 1,34% worse than a BC. That is a very, very small increase (and large cost) from PME to CE which was why Huscarl probably considered it bad (though I would personally put it under good)

Well considering it will take several months before a new age comes out a 1,34% increase is worth it if you want to be really perfectionist about it. And this is only for people who do not have excess population, for people who have plenty of population already it's a no-brainer to build BCs. So BCs are best for cities with plenty population and at least tied to Junkyards for cities who really struggle with population for their needs. I think categorizing BC as just 'good' is plain wrong no matter what perspective you have. People also tend to underestimate the advantage of random rewards from repeatable quests (especially with Frontenac) which makes the scales tip even further towards BCs. I would either categorize them as 'best' or at worst 'tied for best' together with Junkyards.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

People also tend to underestimate the advantage of random rewards from repeatable quests (especially with Frontenac) which makes the scales tip even further towards BCs. I would either categorize them as 'best' or at worst 'tied for best' together with Junkyards.

I know how powerful random rewards are: that's why I'm planning to use fish markets since they take the least amount of space to produce

 

[DeletedUser15501]

I know how powerful random rewards are: that's why I'm planning to use fish markets since they take the least amount of space to produce

I have considered building fish markets but their supply production is just too low for me to justify building them. I could squeeze one or two extra random rewards per day out of them at the cost of coins and/or supplies (taking into account the average amount of motivations I get each day). More coins/supplies also means more random rewards both through collecting the coins/supplies and the pay coins/supplies quest, but I haven't exactly calculated yet whether that weighs up to the 1-2 extra daily random rewards from fish markets in my case. It will probably be very close, too close to be worth the investment to rearrange my entire city. (Also isn't their bigger population requirement compared to BC's a problem for you?) /edit Never mind the last sentence I hadn't considered the happiness penalty on BC.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

They do about 15% worse than Business Centers with regards to supply/(true) space, but take 25% less (true) space to function, and that's a significant enough for me to build them for the random rewards (already have too much supplies (and coins), I do random rewards for the FPs, medals, and goods)

I have to fully remodel my city anyways for condominiums (and military) as well.

 

[DeletedUser]

Summary of Cultural Buildings

Spoiler

Ranking, in order of cost/happiness

Surveillance Nexus (100)
Roller Derby Rink (147)
Eco Park (151)
Algae Airship (152)
American Diner (210)
Publishing House (233)
Zoo (245)
Electrical Plant (252)
City Park (252)
Concept Vehicle Fair (255)
Shopping Mall (255)
Drive-In Theater (278)
Tower Club (300)
Public Pool (312)
Zen Garden (322)
Floating Market (324)
Golf Course (360)
Weather Control Station (434)


Ranking, in order of happiness/tile

Eco Park (196-201)
Weather Control Station (146-155)
Concept Vehicle Fair (131-140)
Algae Airship (135)
Tower Club (121-126)
Shopping Mall (122.5)
Zen Garden (112-119)
Surveillance Nexus (116)
Floating Market (107-110)
Public Pool (101-105)
Golf Course (101-103)
Zoo (98-101)
Drive-In Theater (94-101)
City Park (90-91)
Roller Derby Rink (90-91)
Electrical Plant (88)
American Diner (82-87)
Publishing House (80-81)

Summary of Production Buildings

Spoiler

Productive Efficiency Ranking
Food Printer (158)
Helium-3 Extraction Facility (154-158)
Private Security Company (129-133)
Levitation Outlet (124-133)
Business Center (126)
Junkyard (120-126)
Drone Factory (125)
3D Printer (120)
Logistics Center (110-118)
Fish Market (107-109)
Car Factory (102-105)
Appliance Factory (86-90)
Aircraft Factory (83-89)
Lamp Factory (72-77)
Garage (73)
Hatter (71)
Cattle Ranch (68-69)
Toy Factory (65)


Happiness Efficiency Ranking
Hatter (-14)
Garage (-23)
Toy Factory (-24)
Drone Factory (-26)
Food Printer (-31)
Aircraft Factory (-32)
Cattle Ranch (-32)
Fish Market (-34)
Lamp Factory (-38)
Appliance Factory (-40)
3D Printer (-44)
Car Factory (-44)
Junkyard (-46)
Levitation Outlet (-47)
Business Center (-47)
Logistics Center (-49)
Helium-3 Extraction Facility (-54)
Private Security Company (-59)


Population Efficiency Ranking
Drone Factory (10-12)
Hatter (14)
Garage (17)
Junkyard (18)
Business Center (22)
Aircraft Factory (22-23)
Cattle Ranch (23-24)
Toy Factory (24)
3D Printer (25)
Food Printer (26)
Lamp Factory (27-29)
Appliance Factory (28-29)
Fish Market (30-31)
Car Factory (31-32)
Logistics Center (33-35)
Private Security Company (39-41)
Levitation Outlet (40-43)
Helium-3 Extraction Facility (47-49)

Summary of Housing

Spoiler

Upgrade Value, Coins

Era	1 hour	4 hour	1 day	Premium (8 hour)	Modern	57%	52%	9%	35%
Postmodern	26%	26%	21%	26%
Contemporary	25%	19%	58%	18%
Tomorrow	9%	12%	17%	22%
Future	44%	40%	22%	37%

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Spoiler

Upgrade Value, Population

Era	1 hour	4 hour	1 day	Premium (8 hour)	Modern	23%	33%	9%	18%
Postmodern	16%	15%	15%	15%
Contemporary	35%	27%	28%	6%
Tomorrow	43%	-1%	14%	20%
Future	50%	10%	19%	25%

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Spoiler

Motivation Efficiency
All numbers are based on having 150 tiles, and factor in roads. They assume standard optimal building placement (shorter side touching the road). Smaller numbers are better because it's easier to get 100% motivation.

Era	1 hour	4 hour	1 day	Premium (8 hour)	Progressive	14.3	14.3	12.5	14.3
Modern	10	10	11.1	10
Postmodern	10	7.5	14.3	10
Contemporary	10	7.4	5	7.5
Tomorrow	100	10	10	7.5
Future	30	10	3.6	10

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