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McCallirons elites

DeletedUser96867

we do have a founder of the bunnies on this thread. I was very surprised to see Fischh replying here. But I seriously doubt anyone who did something like that would ever confirm it.
I had no knowledge of any planning of these events. My game play on Fel has been very limited the last couple months(especially the last few weeks) with mainly just logging in daily to run 24hr cycles and doing the odd battle. In particular i've avoided gvg and haven't taken any part in it for the last few months other than doing the odd battle or 2, when I saw a siege was underway(not to mention i now have to turn HA on just to open a gvg sector). I'm aware we had a 'spy' in McC Elites but don't even know the players name and was under the assumption said spy was and would only provide info about impending attacks, and McC Elites goods situation etc, which i believe is an acceptable strategy. I'm also aware that there have been a great deal of message activity between some players in McC Elites and some players in PBOB which i was on the mail list to but i didn't read 95% of it as i had no interest in the bickering between our guilds, or any clear understanding of how the whole situation had arose in the first place. I have enough stress in my miserable life i didn't need any more.

One of the main reasons i've avoided gvg is INNO's complete and 100% inaction in addressing the issues with gvg, not even to admit that they exist. These problems existed in testing before gvg even went live, i'm well aware of them as i was in a guild who had all it's sectors wiped out in the same manner back in late November. I've fought INNO for months to implement the proper rights systems, to implement new clear gvg rules, to close the glaring loopholes, to not only no success but not even any acknowledgement. I no longer have the energy to continue fighting a useless battle with the devs who clearly do not care, nor to take part in an aspect of the the game as poorly designed as gvg. Why i even bother to post here or continue to play FOE i do not know.

fischh
 
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mrbeef

Lieutenant-General
The actions that a player can perform with trusted rights are well known (grant freedom, delete armies etc.)

Giving trusted rights to players, especially those new to a guild, should only be done after a fair amount of due diligence.
 

DeletedUser99588

The actions that a player can perform with trusted rights are well known (grant freedom, delete armies etc.)

Giving trusted rights to players, especially those new to a guild, should only be done after a fair amount of due diligence.
A leap of faith is required at some point and although your suggestion is all that can be done for now does not make the poor excuse for a rights system acceptable. The developers hijacked the trusted rights that was used for private use by leaders in a guild forum and dumped all GvG restricted actions on it. At best a lazy solution at worst pure incompetence or complete lack of understanding how the game would be played.

Really though there is no excuse as yet again this is something that was raised in beta, duly ignored and then introduced into the live game. Is it any wonder players are here complaining. All we can do is extrapolate that the developers do not want this kind of game-play hence the prevention of releasing more than 4 sectors per clock reset and then leave a gaping big whole in it by allowing all defence armies to be deleted.

If they introduced a decent rights management system it would help make GvG a success as guilds would be more willing to provide certain rights to new members without this all or nothing approach we have now. Just look at what happens with that in place. One active GvG guild that is probably on the verge of quitting the game, well GvG at least, due to this continued failure to acknowledge and rectify these short comings in the game. Fischh mentioned this was reported last November in Beta which means 10 months down the line and numerous requests for it on the live server as well, still nothing has been done to help prevent this kind of occurrence.
 

DeletedUser14394

Every SW company makes backups of their assets for the case something turns terribly bad.
I would have no problem when INNO would revert the game to a point before this disaster happened.
For all the players they will loose the updates of the last days. For MCE it will really change their life.
Come on be realistic, do you think it'll happen..? Inno will just give a simple answer - "Only give trusted rights to whom you trust".. This is a pointless argument, as nothing good will happen for MCE.. I really felt for MCE when i came to know about this backstabbing action. Only a real GvG player can feel how hard it is even if he was a enemy. Whoever planned this, doesn't know what it is and they doesn't eligible to play GvG.. Useless idiots.. Calling it as a spying strategy and enjoying it as victory..!!

Say it directly, that you backstabbed them.. :mad:
 
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DeletedUser6514

I had no knowledge of any planning of these events. My game play on Fel has been very limited the last couple months(especially the last few weeks) with mainly just logging in daily to run 24hr cycles and doing the odd battle. In particular i've avoided gvg and haven't taken any part in it for the last few months other than doing the odd battle or 2, when I saw a siege was underway(not to mention i now have to turn HA on just to open a gvg sector). I'm aware we had a 'spy' in McC Elites but don't even know the players name and was under the assumption said spy was and would only provide info about impending attacks, and McC Elites goods situation etc, which i believe is an acceptable strategy. I'm also aware that there have been a great deal of message activity between some players in McC Elites and some players in PBOB which i was on the mail list to but i didn't read 95% of it as i had no interest in the bickering between our guilds, or any clear understanding of how the whole situation had arose in the first place. I have enough stress in my miserable life i didn't need any more.

One of the main reasons i've avoided gvg is INNO's complete and 100% inaction in addressing the issues with gvg, not even to admit that they exist. These problems existed in testing before gvg even went live, i'm well aware of them as i was in a guild who had all it's sectors wiped out in the same manner back in late November. I've fought INNO for months to implement the proper rights systems, to implement new clear gvg rules, to close the glaring loopholes, to not only no success but not even any acknowledgement. I no longer have the energy to continue fighting a useless battle with the devs who clearly do not care, nor to take part in an aspect of the the game as poorly designed as gvg. Why i even bother to post here or continue to play FOE i do not know.

fischh
Perhaps instead of fighting with Inno to make changes, you should make sure you guys aren't using the kind of tactics that you're "trying to get fixed". You admit to having spies already so based on that, I can imagine this isn't out of the question for Pink Bunnies of Doom. And the fact that you guys have taken your fair share of the Elite sectors that were released or lost says a lot as well. If someone from my guild pulled something like this, I would separate myself from them as soon as possible.

From this point on nobody is going to trust that guild and rightfully so.

Daybringers only took 1 sector on the PE map that was unfortunately lost by the Elites and if they can get back to that spot on the map, we'll happily give it back to them.

BigBlack68
Daybringers
 

DeletedUser5180

Daybringers only took 1 sector on the PE map that was unfortunately lost by the Elites and if they can get back to that spot on the map, we'll happily give it back to them.

BigBlack68
Daybringers
hi BB,

I think most decent guilds will do the same. If we were adjacent to those sectors we (our guild) would take them if possible and hold them for elite.
 

DeletedUser6514

hi BB,

I think most decent guilds will do the same. If we were adjacent to those sectors we (our guild) would take them if possible and hold them for elite.
I would imagine so but then again certain guilds have really gained a lot of sectors from this...I wouldn't expect much out of them.
 

DeletedUser5180

I would imagine so but then again certain guilds have really gained a lot of sectors from this...I wouldn't expect much out of them.
that's true, but i guess that was the whole purpose eh :mad:
 

robc999

Some calls for PBoD to post on here. I am one of the leaders. Fischh hasn't been involved in GvsG for some time so please don't accuse him of anything. Fischh is trying to improve the game and he a good guy. Accuse me should you wish. I'm sure Rhana and PG will confirm it's me they have been in touch with.

A lot of things mentioned in here and in Rhana's initial post (now deleted) are I'm sure true but a little selective.

Rhana's initial post mentioned several messages exchanged where we (that would be me by the way) told them over and over that we could attack them due to our low siege costs. True. Not sure what the complaint is there though. Mcs gave as good as they got sending just as many messages back telling us they would taste Bunny blood tonight etc. Part of the game and we have had a decent battle for months exchanging sectors over and over. With the death of GvsG its been fun to have someone to fight.

The question of spies. People can debate the merits but what hasn't been mentioned is that Mcs sent a spy into our guild. I have so many messages from Rhana and PG where they tell me how funny it was receiving information back from their spy and how their entire guild thought it was hilarious to hear of infighting etc. So a bit rich for Mcs themselves to complain about spies. What they didn't realise of course is we weren't daft enough to just allow someone joining direct from Mcs without doing a lot of digging and by the time Mcs asked the individual back she was feeding information back to us in the same way that she had previously been doing for Mcs.

As for the sectors -

Was I receiving information as to what was going on in Mcs in the last few days? Yep. In the same way that they tell me they were previously about us.
Did I ask the individual to delete the sectors? Nope
Have I heard from the individual since? Nope

The name of the individual that Mcs accuse has been mentioned again by Mcs again in this thread by the way (page 2). It doesn't bother me but if the mods want to be consistent (I read they deleted the last thread due to the individual being named) they probably need to delete this one
 

DeletedUser96867

Perhaps instead of fighting with Inno to make changes, you should make sure you guys aren't using the kind of tactics that you're "trying to get fixed". You admit to having spies already so based on that, I can imagine this isn't out of the question for Pink Bunnies of Doom. And the fact that you guys have taken your fair share of the Elite sectors that were released or lost says a lot as well. If someone from my guild pulled something like this, I would separate myself from them as soon as possible.

BigBlack68
Daybringers
Unfortunately there are many aspects of gvg i've been fighting for INNO to fix from ghost guilds, to HQ hopping, spies etc. While it would be nice if no one used these questionable tactics it's become clear INNO isn't going to fix them so why should some guilds hinder themselves by playing by one set of rules while others play by another completely different set of rules. Those who used the HQ hopping tactics while the issue was being debated early in gvg gained great advantage over those who didn't. How long should some guilds fight with one hand behind their back 'in the spirit' of the game when INNO refused to issue any statement on what the 'spirit of the game' even is. I place 99% of the blame for this happening clearly on the shoulders of the INNO developers.

So a spy informing on our intentions is fine, but we can't have a spy informing on anyone elses intentions? I'm tired of living my life by one set of rules while everyone else lives by another. I warned you of these issues with gvg before it even went live and you dismissed my arguements and made no effort to be part of the solution.

While we have taken a number of elites sectors i have no idea how many in which ages that is because we are next to them in most ages and we certainly haven't taken as many sectors as some other guilds have. Also consider that we could have taken a large number of thos sectors without having to fight a single battle simply by sieging them before the defending armies were removed.

I'm not the least bit happy with what has happe ned but not the least bit that such events have taken place due to INNO's COMPLETE inaction in acknowledging or resolving the problems, and we can be 100% certain it will happen again someday on some server until INNO's developers finally wake up and take notice.
 

DeletedUser14349

I don't think getting back to were we used to be is possible. In some cases we would have to attack guilds which have not taken any sectors from us. Just because there is no landing zone. Or we would have to attack our allies if they didn't free sectors. Some guilds would sure not do this because they have really gained a lot. If we do a new start, then it probably won't be at the same place were we once were. I also see no point in having my revenge against the bunnies. We will do what is best for our guild and not what is best for our ego. Wiping the bunnies of the PME map wouldnt really help us in the long run. They only attacked us for revenge, not because they wanted to increase their guild level.

I didn't say anything against having a spy. And we have never "sent" a spy to the bunnies. When we realised we had a mole, we kicked all members who had joined us in the last month or so. 3 of those members joined the bunnies then because they got an invite. One of them has left again the next day because she didn't want that we think she was the mole. The person who has freed our sectors later, messaged us then and convinced us that she only joined the bunnies to help us. We didn't ask her to join them and spy for us. The information we got was not really anything worth seeing as we then wiped them off the map within a week (no months of fighting at all). This person came then back to our guild because we were convinced of her sincerety. She seems to be a good actress.

When Rob says here that he didn't tell said member to delete the armies, I doubt anyone will believe that. This member doesn't gain anything personally from this action. The only thing I believe is that he hasn't heard from her since then. I guess she might have gotten a ban for it. If she is still around, I am sure they wouldn't be so stupid to invite her back to the guild seeing as it would be even more obcious who was pulling the strings. Rob once said the game is his life. And I do feel sorry if someone has to say that. What a poor RL they must live. There is nothing to be said against sending messages. But they were really provokative in the extreme. especially Rob's never ending "Tick Tock" messages. It has been fun soometimes though. It gave our guild something to do and to work together again. But the fun definitely ended at the point where our sectos got deleted. All in all, it was gameplay of the lowest level like I have never seen it on any other world I play.
 

robc999

I don't want to start an argument in front of the world Rhana and I'm off to bed after this and you won't get any further reply before I get home from work tomorrow. But the truth of the matter and the main problem is that you and PG were easier to wind up that a clock. I told you I had a mole in your guild a couple of months ago. I mentioned 10-15 members that it might be and thanks to some informal messages that I had from members of your guild I was able to drip feed information to you and convince you. You then booted half your guild. People may have their views as to whether that is fair. I think its part of the game and I'd do it again. I thought it was battle one won.

Once you had booted half the guild I invited a bunch of them in the hope that you'd be in touch with some and that there was the possibility you had booted some to trick me. I wanted several of your members to join as I thought there was a fair chance someone may still be in touch with you. We got three (one turned back as you say). And then one of them I managed to talk to and win over. You called her back when she was talking to me. People are entitled to their own thoughts again. That again was a battle won in my opinion and I'd do it again.

As for whether anyone will believe Rob did/din't instruct deletion of the armies - I leave that up to others again and if they want to ignore PBoD as a result of this thread thats up to them. But the two paragraphs above are 100% accurate and I don't think Mcs can deny any of those facts. The fact that they didn't mention any of them when they came onto this thread I think tells part of the story. And as Rhana herself mentions on page one they have no proof to link us with what has gone on. I have my sympathy but not much given the accusations of my guild without anything to back it up.

Thats it - Thats all I've got and I'm done for the night. Make your own minds up.
 

DeletedUser14349

you exaggarate. We didn't boot half of the guild. it were about 5 players who had joined us recantly. I agree it wasnt fair to kick them all. But we felt we had no other choice. I was tired not being able to talk freely in my guild any more. a few more we booted because they have been inactive for weeks. The member you managed to talk over was a complete noob in GvG. She would never have known that it's even possible to free a sector by deleting the defending armies. Before she joined you, she had never even deleted a defending army. All the battles you have won were won by trickery. Leaprfogging into our territory in the middle of the night, knowing thanks to a mole when we would attack. Every time we attacked you without telling the whole guild, you lost. You knew you have no chance of winning against us. We wiped you off the map once and we were only hours away from doing it again. and then your mole just decides by herself that it would be a good idea to ruin our guild? A guild which has always helped her? I wonder what lies you have told her to turn her around. I think you have just used her.
 

robc999

Sorry - I did promise to go to bed but you got me again as I'm annoyed at the accusations.

What exactly in the above post am I accused of. Trickery? Yep. I confess. In the middle of the night? Yep. The time that you even admitted through gritted teeth that it was inspired when we got you to fight a siege we didn't care about at one age whilst we won at two other ages? Yep, we planned that one too. They are all valid tactics. We have taken 24 sectors across ages since we declared war. You have taken 21 from us. Its been fun.

And the mole? You say a handful of posts ago that you never complained about that and thought it was ok. Then you admit you sent one into our guild when I brought it up (you didn't volunteer that information to this audience without my bringing it up). And in the post above I'm supposed to feel bad for the trickery that is my spy/mole letting me know when you were going to attack. Which is it? You know you sent the mole/spy to us. Make your mind up.

Night.
 

DeletedUser97883

I don't know whether the spy did that of her own accord or by your order, but the least you could do to give your denial some weight is to apologise for her conduct and make it clear that she'll never be welcome to your guild ever again. Even if it wasn't on order, it was your spy who did it, and some of the responsibility falls on you. I don't personally condone any trickery, but regular spying is nothing in comparison to this. This is something you'll have to clearly denounce in order to avoid being loathed by pretty much the entire server, you can't get away just by claiming it wasn't done on your order.
 

DeletedUser5180

Having read the last few posts with interest I think the main point from this sorry situation is that the use of a spy/mole for gleaning info on attack times, players involved, treasury goods etc is a tactic that many guilds employ and most would see that as acceptable tactics.

A line, however, must be drawn and when that spy/mole completely wipes out another guilds GvG efforts, as has happened here......well that line has BEEN WELL AND TRULY CROSSED

My main point is that a guild using a spy/mole is 100% responsible for every action that player performs. If you can not be sure if that player may cross that line you do not use then. The guild is ultimately responsible for any actions carried out whether instructed to do so or not

The player in question has no idea about PvP, far less GvG. NO way (IMHO) could this player have wiped out every sector on every map without some instruction on how to do so.

The honourable thing to do would be to hand back any sectors gained by this players actions. If this does not happen then any bad feeling across Fel will be rightly merited and will take a long time to be forgotten.

A wake up call for all guilds I guess, perhaps Inno will ensure this cannot happen again.? I doubt it
 

DeletedUser97349

There is a proposal in place to change the current 'delete army' option to 'replace army', which would remove the ability to delete sectors in this way. I have done what I can at present to push this issue, however I cannot make any promises that this will be implemented, or of it is, when that would be.
 

DeletedUser99588

There is a proposal in place to change the current 'delete army' option to 'replace army', which would remove the ability to delete sectors in this way. I have done what I can at present to push this issue, however I cannot make any promises that this will be implemented, or of it is, when that would be.
If this is implemented you need to also provide (at the same time) the means to release HQ when it is the last sector on a map.


As far as spies go if you use them and then fall foul to them then there is a sense of karma. This doesn't mean I agree with what has been done but neither guild seems to be innocent in this affair and the player in question that performed the act must be very bitter or have no sense of empathy to what were fellow guild mates or even to game players in general. All the players that actively participate in GvG know the hard work that goes into being successful and to cause damage to an enemy in this way would be a hollow victory for me. Fight it out on the battlefield and even a bit of psychological warfare as long as it doesn't become abusive. It is a game and should be fun so have some banter with your enemies but ditch the spies. As you can see from this experience a person willing to spy cannot necessarily be trusted by either party.
 

DeletedUser5180

The whole 'trusted rights' needs overhauling. A player given these rights should not be able to perform any actions on an age / era that they have not reached yet.

In this case, yes damage would still have been done but as the player in question was only at colonial age then it would have been limited compared to the damage they have managed to do.
 

DeletedUser5180

I see the players name has been removed from a post on page 2.

As In-Game Mods can check a complete log of players actions I'm sure this post could have been checked to validate the info given and then left unedited.

It seems the guilty player is offered complete protection here. Even in a court of law an innocent person can be named in newspapers and on television long before it is determined if that person could be guilty