Inequality in Guild Battlegrounds

[Deleted member 127677]

Would it be possible then for you to explain how the match up is made? Is it an algorithm or randomly generated? If you can provide this info I will come up with a solution that doesn’t just allow more fights.

It’s based on your league points and (at least for now seems to be) random among guilds with the same league points. The bug or whatever it was about 2 years ago that also took into account when a guild had been created has not been present since that was fixed. So, your issue is that you are drawn with guilds who have reached the same league points as your guild. The main issue, again, is that the league point system is flawed. If devs fix that, among other things, and match making will sort itself.

And yes, the cup system is a great idea.

 

[Knight of ICE]

As I understand it, there are 4 groups of pairings as it stands currently.

Where do you get that from?

 

[Rob The Gr8]

Where do you get that from?

From speaking with other players..... How many groupings of guilds are there in the Diamond league if this is incorrect?

 

[Knight of ICE]

From speaking with other players..... How many groupings of guilds are there in the Diamond league if this is incorrect?

Go to the Guilld ranking. Check how many Guilds are in diamond league on your world. I checked a few and come up with a number around 60. That means 8 pairings, not 4.

 

[Rob The Gr8]

Go to the Guilld ranking. Check how many Guilds are in diamond league on your world. I checked a few and come up with a number around 60. That means 8 pairings, not 4.

So if that’s the case it makes it even easier. Based on the results of the last GbG all the first place guilds go into 1 grouping, all the second placed guilds into another and so on. Then all the last placed guilds get demoted to the lower league (i.e diamond down to platinum) and the top placed guilds in platinum go up to the lowest pairing in diamond.

The guilds fighting each other will all be fairly matched by activity, ability and desire and that would eliminate the algorithm creating the mismatches.

Does that make sense?

 

[Knight of ICE]

So if that’s the case it makes it even easier. Based on the results of the last GbG all the first place guilds go into 1 grouping, all the second placed guilds into another and so on. Then all the last placed guilds get demoted to the lower league (i.e diamond down to platinum) and the top placed guilds in platinum go up to the lowest pairing in diamond.

The guilds fighting each other will all be fairly matched by activity, ability and desire and that would eliminate the algorithm creating the mismatches.

Does that make sense?

Nope.

It makes it harder not easier. You can safely assume that the winner of group 1 was in a group where all had 1000 LP. Winner of group 8 however is very likely to have been the winner of a group with 925 LP or less, cause it is not unlikely that group had to be filled with guilds that were supposed to be in platinum. So you have thrown that winner in with the lions and same might apply to the groups 6 and 7. Not unlikely they also did not have 1000 LP. You have just made an unequal match up.

 

[Rob The Gr8]

Nope.

It makes it harder not easier. You can safely assume that the winner of group 1 was in a group where all had 1000 LP. Winner of group 8 however is very likely to have been the winner of a group with 925 LP or less, cause it is not unlikely that group had to be filled with guilds that were supposed to be in platinum. So you have thrown that winner in with the lions and same might apply to the groups 6 and 7. Not unlikely they also did not have 1000 LP. You have just made an unequal match up.

How do you get to that assumption? The only thing that’s taken into account with my suggestion should be league position. It’s a basic league system without complications.
All 1st positions play each other
All 2nd positions play each other and so on
Within 4 rounds maximum. The matching will have evened itself out and there will be no algorithm or guilds playing the system to do that. It will be based on results only. If you want to stay up or try for promotion, you fight for it.

The issue is think with the mismatching is the complexity of the algorithm using the LP system.

Just my thoughts but would be interested to hear others views of my suggestion.

 

[Knight of ICE]

How do you get to that assumption? The only thing that’s taken into account with my suggestion should be league position. It’s a basic league system without complications.
All 1st positions play each other
All 2nd positions play each other and so on
Within 4 rounds maximum. The matching will have evened itself out and there will be no algorithm or guilds playing the system to do that. It will be based on results only. If you want to stay up or try for promotion, you fight for it.

The issue is think with the mismatching is the complexity of the algorithm using the LP system.

Just my thoughts but would be interested to hear others views of my suggestion.

Shouldn't you know how something works before you start to "improve" it?

Current Diamond League points range is 901 - 1000. The Battlegrounds match making algorithm takes the guilds in the order of their League Points and puts them into battlegrounds together. That way all guilds in a battleground will have similar League Points values. So when starting with the first group in Diamond League with 1000 LP you will end up with the last group with 925 LP or less. After all groups have finished you will place the winner of the 925 LP group in the group with the winner of the 100 LP group. How is that equal? You do know it can be easy to win a 925 LP group and then get swamped in a 1000 LP group? Matching will even itself out? Like it has now? There will always be Guilds that are on the edge and that will go up and down every week. You are creating leagues within the Diamond League with as a result that nothing will change. Guilds will deliberately try to end up as second or third to have an easier league the next round and to top that they can do so while still in Diamond! All for extra fights that are not going to happen.

And now I do not even mention map positioning that also makes a difference.

 

[Rob The Gr8]

Shouldn't you know how something works before you start to "improve" it?

Current Diamond League points range is 901 - 1000. The Battlegrounds match making algorithm takes the guilds in the order of their League Points and puts them into battlegrounds together. That way all guilds in a battleground will have similar League Points values. So when starting with the first group in Diamond League with 1000 LP you will end up with the last group with 925 LP or less. After all groups have finished you will place the winner of the 925 LP group in the group with the winner of the 100 LP group. How is that equal? You do know it can be easy to win a 925 LP group and then get swamped in a 1000 LP group? Matching will even itself out? Like it has now? There will always be Guilds that are on the edge and that will go up and down every week. You are creating leagues within the Diamond League with as a result that nothing will change. Guilds will deliberately try to end up as second or third to have an easier league the next round and to top that they can do so while still in Diamond! All for extra fights that are not going to happen.

And now I do not even mention map positioning that also makes a difference.

Why do you feel you need to turn everything I suggest into an argument and be so negative? I really did think this was a place to talk openly and freely about suggestions.
You are extremely rude and god knows how you manage to be a moderator….
Prime example why this game is dying.
I will never comment on her again.
Goodbye.

 

[Knight of ICE]

Why do you feel you need to turn everything I suggest into an argument and be so negative? I really did think this was a place to talk openly and freely about suggestions.

Is it negative to show you the other side of your suggestion? Do you think your suggestion will be better if nobody responds to it? If so, do not ask what others think about it. If you want to talk openly and freely about your suggestions, accept that other players can see it dfferent and will not agree with you. You come up with 4 pairings, from speaking with other players. It is your idea. Do not accept what others tell you, but do your own research and accept criticism. I am trying to show you the flaws in your suggestion. Work with it, or ignore it. My opinion about your idea has nothing to do with me being a moderator, but that is an easy excuse. Hey, you are a mod, so you have to agree with what I have to say and you are not allowed to have an opinion about it. Sorry, but that does not work for me. I am a player that helps out as a mod. I do it on the forum, where others do it as ingame mods. All mods are players and we all have an opinion about the game. Does not mean we are not impartial in what we do, but as players we have the right to speak out. Same as you do.

 

[Rob The Gr8]

Is it negative to show you the other side of your suggestion? Do you think your suggestion will be better if nobody responds to it? If so, do not ask what others think about it. If you want to talk openly and freely about your suggestions, accept that other players can see it dfferent and will not agree with you. You come up with 4 pairings, from speaking with other players. It is your idea. Do not accept what others tell you, but do your own research and accept criticism. I am trying to show you the flaws in your suggestion. Work with it, or ignore it. My opinion about your idea has nothing to do with me being a moderator, but that is an easy excuse. Hey, you are a mod, so you have to agree with what I have to say and you are not allowed to have an opinion about it. Sorry, but that does not work for me. I am a player that helps out as a mod. I do it on the forum, where others do it as ingame mods. All mods are players and we all have an opinion about the game. Does not mean we are not impartial in what we do, but as players we have the right to speak out. Same as you do.

I’m sorry but if you can’t see the way in which you voice your opinions is argumentative, rude and patronising you you have a personal problem! When your opening line is:

Shouldn’t you know how something works before you try to “improve” it?

That’s patronising and condescending. Regardless of if you’re just a player or mod (representing the game) you should speak to people with respect. It would have been fare easier and less antagonistic if you’d have started the message, “I see your point but I still think is has issues such as……” THAT’S MY ISSUE!
Yes everyone’s ides have flaws, and I’m not saying my idea is perfect but there could be a workable solution from it. Do you have any ideas on how to make GbG better inclusive of larger guilds and smaller guilds and matchups????

 

[Sir Lancelor]

Going to throw my 2 cents here and attempt to remain civil despite some very odd stuff read above.

OK so there are different numbers of diamond guilds per server so different numbers of diamond of leagues as stated previously. Going to use my own server as just an example of what is happening this time. We have 4 diamond BGs as is the norm for us each season.

1. Current situation in our BG - Us 226k points, 2nd place - A semi active guild on 62k points, rest of the BG pinned and getting no fights. Result = 7 unhappy/bored guilds and the 2nd place guild i suppose happy with their lot.
2. 2nd BG 2 of the top 3 guilds on the server matched against each other. The other 6 guilds are pinned and have been since the start. Result 2 happy guilds, 6 unhappy/bored guilds pinned who can't get out.
3. 3rd BG, 2 semi-active guilds swapping the map, similar situation to No2, 2 happy guilds, 6 guilds bored and pinned back.
4. 4th BG, Slow BG this, 3 semi active guilds swapping over 1 day, 5 guilds pinned. Again 5 guilds unhappy.

This scenario above is what's happening in diamond BG in our server every single week, as you can see above the vast majority of guilds are either pinned and bored or the good ones have so little competition they are also bored. You absolutely cannot tell me this is working as intended or that this is a healthy environment for a thriving game. People will be more inclined to quit due to lack of opportunities not stay. Maybe the current system works in plat/gold leagues (im delighted that the chap above in a 1 man guild in a multiplayer game is happy), but diamond is beyond broken atm.

OK so our vocal moderator has requested solutions not just pointing out problems. Fair enough. Aside from the obvious that it is game developers jobs to solve issues and provide a good game for their players, not up to players to improve the game they play.

1. Cross server needs to happen - I appreciate that it has already been pointed out that it would take a massive amount of resources to make work but it is the main solution to solving this inequality. Active guilds can be matched with other active guilds, semi active can be matched with other semi active, less active with less active etc. Everyone gets good competition, everyone at least has the opportunity to get fights and it will encourage guilds to login each day.

2. If the above absolutely cannot happen (and i fail to believe it cant), then i believe 1 diamond league per server would make more sense not 4-8 or however many each server has. At the very least more of the top guilds will be together each week and for the smaller guilds they get away from the top guilds more often. Bottom 2-4 get relegated etc to keep things refreshing. Having multiple diamond BGs just leads to the situation i have described above every single week.

 

[Knight of ICE]

That’s patronising and condescending.

No it is spot on. You don't know how it works and did not bother to look it up. In my opinion it isn't your point that has issues, but your approach that has. You simply ignore the basics of GBG cause you want more fights. Because of that you ignore what others try to tell you. Now if you want to talk patronising and condescending, guess what?

And there’s the problem. You’re trying to hold a discussion with me but you don’t play the game and have limited knowledge of the game. Play the game and see what you think.

Now I am done with this discussion. The field is all yours.

 

[Rob The Gr8]

No it is spot on. You don't know how it works and did not bother to look it up. In my opinion it isn't your point that has issues, but your approach that has. You simply ignore the basics of GBG cause you want more fights. Because of that you ignore what others try to tell you. Now if you want to talk patronising and condescending, guess what?



Now I am done with this discussion. The field is all yours.

My idea wasn't based on how it works now but how it could work.

Also, tiny problem with your argument..... You told me that you don't play the game. see below......

Of course not. I don't play the game and you are not in the same Guild.

It's a shame a simple adult conversation needs to end this way so I will end it in a civilised manor. Good luck with your game and I hope you get all you want from it.

 

[Knight of ICE]

Also, tiny problem with your argument..... You told me that you don't play the game. see below......

Look again. Who am I telling that to?

 

[Rob The Gr8]

Look again. Who am I telling that to?

Apologies, you didn't day it to me, you said it to someone else. However, it's still an admission from you that you don't play the game....... Is it not?

 

[Knight of ICE]

Apologies, you didn't day it to me, you said it to someone else. However, it's still an admission from you that you don't play the game....... Is it not?

Is it? What if it is a double negative?

 

[Deleted member 127677]

My idea wasn't based on how it works now but how it could work

Heaven knows I don’t agree with Knight of ICE on a lot of things, but

You don't know how it works and did not bother to look it up

you did also demonstrate that you don’t know how Gbg works in its current incarnation. It’s usually helpful to know the framework of what you are trying to change before you try to change it. There are lots of things wrong about Gbg. I would be hugely grateful for a reduction in the time demand just to stay remotely competitive in the game, and I don’t think I’m the only one. I would also like to see a heavy reduction of the farming, and by consequence of the assumption that if you don’t farm, you’re not active or don’t care. Which was a big part of your argument too. There are many ways to play. Devs have taken the game in some odd directions while ignoring others, but the one they’ve completely failed to address is what Gbg has become, by comparison to what it could have been. If you go back on topic for this discussion, the matchmaking is poor, and it is so because the system is broken. Lots of players are bored with it. So, irrespective of how you and ICE come out of your chit chat above, it would be great if someone, anyone, out of the community managers, other mods or whoever of the ‘Foe Team’ cohort could at least forward to Inno the gist of what has been discussed here, That the system needs fixing, badly.

 

[Knight of ICE]

Devs have taken the game in some odd directions while ignoring others, but the one they’ve completely failed to address is what Gbg has become, by comparison to what it could have been. If you go back on topic for this discussion, the matchmaking is poor, and it is so because the system is broken.

I don't think the system is broken. The idea behind GBG was that within each battleground, the participating guilds will fight for victory by holding as many provinces as possible for as long as possible. However what the Devs expect to happen and what players will do with anything new usually is not the same.

@shadowblackff was spot on

"Technically, GBG is about acquiring and holding sectors in order to earn Victory Points, which improves your position on the board, which in turn ddetermines your final GBG rewards for that round. The problem is that in practice the individual rewards we get from fighting or negotiating in GBG are far superior to the rewards we get from Victory Points, thus everyone is more interested in doing as many fights as possible and sectors are held only as long as necessary"

Players do not want to hold those sectors. They want to lose them as fast as possible, so they can retake them again, do more fights and get more rewards.

The system is based on the original idea behin GBG and that is holding sectors. Not doing as many fights as you can.

So, irrespective of how you and ICE come out of your chit chat above, it would be great if someone, anyone, out of the community managers, other mods or whoever of the ‘Foe Team’ cohort could at least forward to Inno the gist of what has been discussed here, That the system needs fixing, badly.

It will be forwarded.

 

[Rob The Gr8]

you did also demonstrate that you don’t know how Gbg works in its current incarnation.

I have a basic understanding how it works and I certainly don’t profess to know it 100%, but as my new suggestion didn’t have anything to do with the mechanics of the existing systems I didn’t mention them. Lesson learned and next time I will explain I know something before speaking about it.

I’m just saddened that a certain person felt it necessary to try to belittle me in their responses to me.

Thank you for being civilised in you comments to me Arch1e.