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Hall of Fame nerfing

DeletedUser1081

That's interesting; I don't think I've seen anyone say that before. It's logical though - coins from quests are rewards.

Let's stay on topic here folks! :cool: The Nerfing of the HoF is the subject at hand
 

DeletedUser

Before the HoF was introduced,

prestige = power + guild level prestige bonus + bonus from being top 3 ranked

after HOF was introduced,

prestige = power + guild level prestige bonus + bonus from being top 3 ranked

but according to alex this was obviously a bug
 

DeletedUser5180

i received a refund for 2 HoF won in the chest (600 cups) in only 2 hrs from putting in a ticket

many thanks to Kimba for her very speedy work :cool:
 

DeletedUser

*side note* - coins/supplies gathered from plundering, and the 20 coins from M/Ping also don't count toward player score.

You all are looking at this completely wrong. I'm going to try to explain this one other way that will hopefully make a little more sense than what i've already said. Try to be a little more "open" when you read this, maybe it's not a way you've looked at it yet. Check this out:

fischh mentioned that "power from HoF is different than power from sectors", and I believe that's how others are looking at it, also. But this is not how you should think of it as, and this is what is leading to confusion.

Power is the same whether it's from HoF, sectors, top 3 bonus, etc....power is power. Power goes to leveling up your guild. Don't think of power as anything else, don't even think of power as prestige.

Now, instead of thinking that "power from sectors contributes to prestige, but power from HoF doesn't" let's think of it in a completely new light. So erase that from your brain. Instead of thinking of "what sector's power do/don't contribute to" when thinking about prestige, let's think of it a different way. Let's think:

"How is prestige calculated?" Prestige is calculated by adding up all your sector totals, plus the prestige that is awarded from your guild level bonus.

So, my point is, when talking about power, you should ONLY think of power as contributing to your GUILD LEVEL PROGRESS. Just forget about prestige when thinking about power.

Then, when you do want to talk about prestige, then and only then, will you correlate "power" with "prestige", by using the formula "sector totals + level bonus".

If you try to think of power as both ways, that's where you'll get yourself confused.
 

DeletedUser98465

I'm pretty sure myself and Death Ouran just explained it several posts back ;)
 
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DeletedUser

Then why has he disagreed with literally everything i've said?

I don't know how he could have explained it that way when he's convinced that power = prestige
 

DeletedUser98465

Then why has he disagreed with literally everything i've said?

I don't know how he could have explained it that way when he's convinced that power = prestige

Because you are arguing over terminology without realising you are actually talking about the exact same thing just in different ways; although you are definitively wrong when you claim above:

"when talking about power, you should ONLY think of power as contributing to your GUILD LEVEL PROGRESS. Just forget about prestige when thinking about power"

power contributes to prestige through sectors, it's just that prestige also includes a bonus.
 

DeletedUser

You're missing the point i'm trying to make. It's not you (DD) that i'm speaking against. You've been saying exactly what I have, and that's why i've thanked you for your contributions to the thread. I'm trying to put to rest the arguement/confusion that power is not the same as prestige, and when you view it as the same, that's when you run into the problem of thinking the power from the HoF should contribute to prestige.

So to sum it up, and then end my part on the topic:

Power CONTRIBUTES to prestige, but prestige is NOT just simply made up of all sources of power. Therefore, power does not = prestige.
 

DeletedUser98465

Accepted :) in context, power does not directly equal prestige on a 1:1 basis, it is a factor that adds to a guilds prestige.

The other part of the issue is Inno seem to deem it unnecessary to explain how things work, not really sure why, given it's not like someone is going to directly copy at this level, this is what copyright and intellectual property rights are for, but I guess Inno forgot about them too.
 

DeletedUser

Exactly DD! And as another side note, that was why I posted the screenshot clip of the "GvG help screen", to show where it says "power influences guild ranking"...meaning it "contributes". You're dead on mate.

Yes, we are certainly all in agreement that the dynamics and functions of GvG has been poorly explained in game. Hopefully Inno will take a look at this in the future and give it a once-over. Heck, I'd be happy to do it for them for the sake of all this confusion!
 

DeletedUser13082

I'm not arguing it any more. It's pretty plain and clear in my opinion. Power gained from sectors goes to guild rank. Therefore power gained from a HoF should technically do the same thing, because it is the exact same thing been given from the HoF as it is from a sector. No I don't want HoF to give rank points again, all I'm saying is that from the way the game is, it should, which to me says that this was never a bug.

Also, sorry to throw us back off topic here. Coins from plunder and P/M do count toward personal rank. P/M 15 people to gain 300 coins and your personal rank will go up by one. I haven't tested it on quest given coins yet, but that's something I've never heard of before so will check it and find out later today :)
 

DeletedUser

They must have changed it then. When I tested it a few months back, they didn't.
 

DeletedUser96867

.....
fischh mentioned that "power from HoF is different than power from sectors", and I believe that's how others are looking at it, also. But this is not how you should think of it as, and this is what is leading to confusion.

Power is the same whether it's from HoF, sectors, top 3 bonus, etc....power is power. Power goes to leveling up your guild. Don't think of power as anything else, don't even think of power as prestige.

Now, instead of thinking that "power from sectors contributes to prestige, but power from HoF doesn't" let's think of it in a completely new light. So erase that from your brain. Instead of thinking of "what sector's power do/don't contribute to" when thinking about prestige, let's think of it a different way. Let's think:

"How is prestige calculated?" Prestige is calculated by adding up all your sector totals, plus the prestige that is awarded from your guild level bonus.

So, my point is, when talking about power, you should ONLY think of power as contributing to your GUILD LEVEL PROGRESS. Just forget about prestige when thinking about power.

Then, when you do want to talk about prestige, then and only then, will you correlate "power" with "prestige", by using the formula "sector totals + level bonus".

If you try to think of power as both ways, that's where you'll get yourself confused.


Here is the definition of prestige provided to us in the initial gvg announcement made on this server:

"Prestige - Prestige is calculated from the level of a guild and the daily power. It is used for the global guild ranking."
http://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/showthread.php?24276-Guild-versus-Guilld!

Now you are trying to tell me that we were to assume that prestige did not equal level bonus + daily power but rather it equals level bonus + sector totals(whatever that means as you mean the total of your sectors power). Everything in your post you are tellling us to do directly contradicts the information we had on power and prestige. Again i don't think you are getting what we are saying, it's not that we are confused about what the current corrected calculation for prestige is, it's that I don't understand how we were possibly expected to come to that conclusion based on the information which had been provided to us, it's like you expect us to be mind readers. You seem to be the one confused as you are attempting to defend a position you can't possible defend.

To further clarify i did NOT think that power = prestige i believed prestige = guild level prestige bonus + power as that is how it was defined.
 
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DeletedUser13082

They must have changed it then. When I tested it a few months back, they didn't.

Just double checked and stand corrected. Sure I tested it before and score went up but tried again just now and no gain so ignore last post :)
 

DeletedUser

"Prestige - Prestige is calculated from the level of a guild and the daily power. It is used for the global guild ranking."
http://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/showthread.php?24276-Guild-versus-Guilld!

Now you are trying to tell me that we were to assume that prestige did not equal level bonus + daily power but rather it equals level bonus + sector totals(whatever that means as you mean the total of your sectors power). Everything in your post you are tellling us to do directly contradicts the information we had on power and prestige. Again i don't think you are getting what we are saying, it's not that we are confused about what the current corrected calculation for prestige is, it's that I don't understand how we were possibly expected to come to that conclusion based on the information which had been provided to us, it's like you expect us to be mind readers. You seem to be the one confused as you are attempting to defend a position you can't possible defend.

That is not at all what i'm saying. I said exactly what you just wrote:
Prestige is calculated from DAILY power, which is the total of all your sectors added up + guild level.

There's no arguement here about how prestige is calculated. The point was, just because prestige is calculated from certain sources of power, does not mean that ALL power obtained is added to prestige.
 

DeletedUser13082

That is not at all what i'm saying. I said exactly what you just wrote:
Prestige is calculated from DAILY power, which is the total of all your sectors added up + guild level.

There's no arguement here about how prestige is calculated. The point was, just because prestige is calculated from certain sources of power, does not mean that ALL power obtained is added to prestige.

But what has been said in return is how can total daily power from sectors and total daily power from HoF be any different. Both of them give a value of total daily power, and total daily power contributes to total guild prestige. Meaning that the HoF should be doing the same as sectors and was never bugged to begin with.

Cool, that's what I thought. Thanks for double checking.

No problem :)
 

DeletedUser98465

But what has been said in return is how can total daily power from sectors and total daily power from HoF be any different. Both of them give a value of total daily power, and total daily power contributes to total guild prestige. Meaning that the HoF should be doing the same as sectors and was never bugged to begin with.

I think i just clicked to what you are saying. And you are right, in that IF that is exactly how it was working, then it wasn't bugged, but i don't believe that to be the case, but they did use the premise of a bug being present to reduce its power in an view to offset the prestige it was "supposedly" giving.

The problem lies herein, with what it was ACTUALLY doing. This is why i asked the question over HoF's prestige (in 1.28) as the comment from Inno came back as it was giving power AND prestige i.e. contributory power and contributory prestige.
 

DeletedUser13082

I think i just clicked to what you are saying. And you are right, in that IF that is exactly how it was working, then it wasn't bugged, but i don't believe that to be the case, but they did use the premise of a bug being present to reduce its power in an view to offset the prestige it was "supposedly" giving.

The problem lies herein, with what it was ACTUALLY doing. This is why i asked the question over HoF's prestige (in 1.28) as the comment from Inno came back as it was giving power AND prestige i.e. contributory power and contributory prestige.

Ok well to explain, what it was actually doing prior to the nerf was literally acting in the exact same way as a sector does. You put it in your city and you collect from it. When collected from, after the daily calculation, the points collected would be added on to the guilds rank points, and also the go toward the guilds daily level points (the same way they do for a sector). If the player didn't collect from it the next day then it would be the same as losing a sector, the points it added to the guild rank would be removed and the guild would receive that many points less to their guild level progress. If collected 2+ consecutively then it would act, again, the same as a sector.

For example.

Day one of owning HoF: collect from HoF and gain 170 power (PME rates prior to nerf) The guild rank would increase by 170 power after calculation and 170 power would be added to guild level progress on top of the other power the guild owns.

Day two: Collect from HoF again (before calculation time) and guild rank remains the same (if no sectors are lost). Also the guild receives the extra 170 power to guild level progress again.

Day three: missed collection. Guild rank now drops by 170 after calculation (as if you had lost a sector worth 170). The extra 170 power does not go toward the guild level progress.

So not collecting from the HoF is the same as losing a sector worth 170 power.

So the hall of fame was literally a sector in your city which you had to keep control of each day to gain those points for your guild. Doing exactly what everybody assumed/knew it would do. Which was to act in the same way as a sector does. Giving power in the same way which benefits the guild in the same way. Personally I can't see how this could possibly have been a bug. It was said that the building gives power, the same as sectors do. Sector power goes toward guild level and guild rank. Therefore the HoF power, being the same thing, did the same thing. Those who assumed the HoF WOULDN'T contribute to guild rank, were actually the ones who made the incorrect assumption from the information that the players currently have, that information being: Power = Prestige = Guild rank.

It wasn't a bug, it was just a terrible idea. To add to that, it was a well known problem on the beta server with beta forums being very active with concerns about it. The response was that devs thought players were talking about it being over-powered in values only, not that it gave directly to the guild rank BUT I followed that thread from start to finish as it was all happening, I myself saw anwar, game dev, looking at that thread when he was online on beta forum (check online persons profile to see what they are currently doing). So quite clearly he had read that thread and no way could devs have not known that the HoF was giving directly to the guild rank after reading the posts there.

Then they make the claim it is a bug which was not noticed in beta. Then when all the bad feelings continue, what turns up in the biggest coincidence of 2014? The update we've all been waiting for, GB cap release and vouchers! That's too much of a coincidence for my liking.

In conclusion, that is why I think that the entire thing was a money making scheme which was planned out to work in the exact way which it has worked.

Release the HoF > give a while for backlash and uproar > claim it's a bug and part announce the nerf (no in-game announcement was made) > hold off on the nerf a short while to give players opportunity to spend more money to get them > Nerf Building > release update everybody wants to try and make them happy again and save face by taking the main spotlight away from the HoF disaster and on to something else.

Everything went exactly to plan, all but one thing, which is players not being as dumb as they clearly believe. To me, at least, the entire thing is blatantly obvious. I'm honestly not sure how others don't see it, but I know a lot who do see it. I'm just the one who is willing to say it out loud ;)
 
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DeletedUser96867

That is not at all what i'm saying. I said exactly what you just wrote:
Prestige is calculated from DAILY power, which is the total of all your sectors added up + guild level.

There's no arguement here about how prestige is calculated. The point was, just because prestige is calculated from certain sources of power, does not mean that ALL power obtained is added to prestige.

So you are saying that HOF does not produce daily power, please show me where it was explained that the HOF does not produce 'daily power', also please show me where it explains that power is defined differently than daily power.

As well even if your argument was correct that daily power is different than power your description of daily power above
'which is the total of all your sectors added up + guild level' is incorrect as it would have to be:
'Daily power, which is the total of all your sectors added up * your rank % bonus' then there also should be a comma before + guild level as it appears you are suggesting + guild level is part of the daily power calculation. So after all this your description of how you think prestige is calculated is still wrong.

The simplest definition of prestige is power + guild level bonus however that does not work with the HOS. The new correct definition of prestige would have to be:
prestige = guild level prestige bonus + (total power of GVG sectors * guild rank bonus) Please show me where this definition has been provided officially by INNO where it can clearly and easily be found by all players either before the HOS was introduced, and i'll also accept if you can find that clear definition officially provided some place where a player need not spend hours reading through hundreds of posts in some game forum thread.

The point is: How were we supposed to know that, we didn't we couldn't.
 
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