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Forwarded: Guild Treasury goods exchange

  • Thread starter DeletedUser96844
  • Start date

Do you support this Idea

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 39.1%
  • No

    Votes: 14 60.9%

  • Total voters
    23
Status
Not open for further replies.

DeletedUser2989

Consider this:

1/ traded goods to / from guild treasury can only be done by those with leader status.
2/ have no fp costs to allow for trades to be done on behalf of guild
3/ goods only go to / from treasury and not to the players stock.

it would debunk most of the concerns of players taking advantage..
the guild could swap unneeded goods for those needed for GvG
other guild members could donate goods to those ages for trading to help out their guilds.
it would help those guilds with very little players with troops and goods in the correct age to get a foothold on the maps.

if guild members see a leader conducting bad trades they can simply stop donating goods (but i dont see why leaders would damage their guilds in that way)

I think 1/ is a bit too demanding on leaders, toggling the option to trade goods for those in "x" age in the gulid treasury isn't that bad but it sounds like 1/ is more work for leaders.
2/ Trades to be done on behalf to guild? Who is the guild treasury trading with? or do you mean it wouldn't cost FP to trade goods for those in the treasury?
3/ I'm not sure I'm getting this one, not sure where what goods are going.

Reading through all this I'm now a bit confused as to what the original idea was intending and what all these possible changes mean.

Titan45 could you either edit the orignal post or post after me and make it a bit clearer as to how the trades with the guild treasury work, maybe with examples using hypothetical situations. If not could you message me and explain it further as I think it's a good idea but I fear I'm miss reading the intent now.
 

DeletedUser96867

@ Tankovy

The way i see it.

1)Only leaders( or those with the appropriate yet to be created gvg rights) would be able to place trade from the treasure or accept trades on behalf of the treasury. The leader would go into the market window but instead of it being their personal account it would be the guild treasury account. From there they would be able to put up trades on the market using treasury goods or to accept existing trades on the market using treasury goods. The goods offered and accepted coming from/going to the gvg treasury.

2)This one is a bit complicated the more i think of it there are several options.
a)guild treasury can trade just with guildmembers.
b)guild treasury can trade just with other guild treasuries
c)guild treasury can trade with guild members and other guild treasuries

Since the guild treasury account has no fp, it would have no way of paying the fp fee to accept a trade from outside the guild, hence no fp fee.(could be some problems/exploits here)

3)The leaders/players would not have the option to just remove goods from the treasury. It's not like the leaders are taking the goods out of the treasury putting them in their own account to trade on behalf of the treasury on the assumption they would then put those goods back into the treasury. The only way the leaders could exploit the goods in the treasury would to be to put up unfair trades to be accepted by the treasury. This leads us back to a gvg events log which would show in addition to other info gvg treasury trading info so a leader trying to 'steal' goods from the guild treasury wouldn't be able to hide it from the guild. Could also make it impossible for a player with gvg treasury trade rights to make personal trades with their own treasury but that would involve some more complex coding, and a player could just get around it be temporary removing their rights anyhow.

thank make any more sense?

Agree the original post in this thread is a little bit confusing.

EDIT (one of many on this post)
Giving it more thought i believe the guild treasury would still have to pay a fp fee for trades outside the guild, might actually need to pay at a higher rate(1fp to offer and 1fp to accept) due to too many possible exploits to get around personal fp trade fees. That would require guild members to have to donate fp to the gvg treasury to provide a fp pool for the treasury to use.
 
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DeletedUser2989

Thanks fischh what you've described is a lot easier to follow. 1) makes sense, for 2) I'd like to see option c) but as to the trading with other guilds I'd have to say a 1 FP or 2 FP cost would make sense with FP's being donateable. (option c would make this idea very similar to the Guild to Guild exchange idea, if not the same)

As for 3) that makes sense, the idea to enforce fair only trades was brought up in the other idea thread. As the ideas here and there are so simmilar it would work here to. It would prevent leaders/trusted people unfairly trading goods out of the treasury and into their own stores and helps stop one guild unfairly trading goods in a form of goods push scheme. I'm not sure if people would agree with the forced fair trade ratios but i'm not opposed.
 

DeletedUser96867

The problem with a forced trade ratio (as i'm sure i saw someone else previously posted) is that different players/guilds have different ideas of what they consider a fair trade especially at the higher ages. I too would not be opposed to a forced fair trade ratio but i'm certain others would have issues with it. The best that might be able to be done is to restrict trades to same age or 1 age apart to limit/slow unfair trades(same 1:2, 2:1 max trade ratios that already exist). If a gvg rights system was brought in to limit these rights to just a few people, i think that the risk of those players exploiting this feature for their own gain would be very low especially if the events log was available so they could not hide what they had done.

The biggest exploit i would be concerned about is the possibility of a fp avoidance. Also guilds being able to more easily trade for bulk amount of goods in an expanded market for non gvg uses(not an issue with option 'a' and 'b', but a possible problem with option 'c'.

For me the simplest solution to the problem of goods being donated to the treasury for the wrong ages would still be the ability of a leaders to lock out which goods can/can not be donated to the treasury, based on the guilds gvg current needs. That simple feature would eliminate the problem without any possible impact on any other aspect of the game, however it does not provide a solution to the goods already donated(an issue that gets worse with every day nothing is done).
 

DeletedUser2989

@ fischh, I think I brought that up in the other thread... the whole people value things differently thing. Really the current limitations would be all that's needed, as you've stated.

I don't see too much of an exploit there so long as you apply the FP costs to the treasury (possibly double the cost) and have people donate FP's to the treasury so it can pick up trades from other guilds. Treat a guild as if it was a person, it can own stuff now so it is on its way lol.

I too would like to see that, no reason why it couldn't be added along with this feature or on its own. Even if small steps are taken in the right direction the game will eventually get there.

I think that's all I have to add when it comes to this idea. Assuming I've got the idea working right in my head it's offically a big +1!
 

DeletedUser96844

@fischh and @tankovy..
why should there be an fp cost involved?
it is goods that can only be used by the guild and not personal city use.
If the leaders were to do unfair trades for their own benifit..why would you want to be in that guild... there is less chance of a leader doing unfair trades than leaving it open for anyone to do them

it may also help smaller guilds as players from lower ages could donate goods to their giulds, which in turn could be traded by leaders for goods that the guild need for GvG.

This is an idea in priciple and can be refined before roll out.
it would overcome the issue of goods already placed in treasury and in future help smaller guilds with players in different ages a chance to compete for guild bonuses.
 

DeletedUser

1)Only leaders( or those with the appropriate yet to be created gvg rights) would be able to place trade from the treasure or accept trades on behalf of the treasury. The leader would go into the market window but instead of it being their personal account it would be the guild treasury account. From there they would be able to put up trades on the market using treasury goods or to accept existing trades on the market using treasury goods. The goods offered and accepted coming from/going to the gvg treasury.

I think this would provide sufficient safeguards to prevent the majority of abuse that could happen with guild treasury trading: if it was something any guildie could do, there is a large potential for sabotage. If it is restricted to people with certain rights, then it is easier to ensure only trusted people get those rights.

2)This one is a bit complicated the more i think of it there are several options.
a)guild treasury can trade just with guildmembers.
b)guild treasury can trade just with other guild treasuries
c)guild treasury can trade with guild members and other guild treasuries

2 a) This would be useful to keep the trading within the guild and allowing guild members to regain access to goods that might just be sitting around doing nothing. In this scenario I assume that the guild treasury would have to put up a series of small trades that guild members could afford.

2 b) This would be useful for bulk trading between guilds, and would probably mean that a few large trades would be set up, rather than a whole series of small trades in scenario a).

2 c) This obviously gives the most flexibility - both large and small trades can be set up to benefit guilds and individual guild members.
 

DeletedUser2989

@titan45 The FP cost was for between guild trades because technically that is what it is like now. If you implemented option c where guilds could trade between eachothers treasuries and guild members could trade with their own treasury with no FP's involved you could have the following situation:

Guild members in Guild A donate goods into their treasury, these goods are then traded to another Guild (B) with no FP cost. Guild members in Guild B could then trade for those goods. This completely avoids the usual FP cost for trading outside of a guild. Not really a big deal in my mind but still some people may have a problem with it.

As has been said would be great to be able to use the accidently donated "useless" goods.
 

DeletedUser96867

@titan45

What Tankovy said but in situation 'c' above here is what i see happening if there was no fp fee(treasury to treasury). A player in a guild needs a good but there is none available for trade in his guild. Say the player wants copper, and has granite to offer.
1)Player puts up trade granite for some good in the treasury(say iron).
2)Player goes into the treasury market(presuming the player has the rights to do so) he accepts his own trade.
3)Player does a trade from the treasury trading his granite for the copper he wanted.(trading with another guilds treasury)
4)Player puts up a trade offering copper from the treasury, asking for iron.
5)Player leaves the treasury goes backs to his own trade page and accepts the copper trade.

The player now has the copper he wanted, everything in the treasury is unchanged, and the player managed to save the fp point.

The other issue with this is with option 'c' and the ability for one treasury to trade with another we have in a sense greatly increased the size of the market. Before markets only included your own guild, hood and friends. Now with the treasury trade option, guilds could have a much easier time getting ahold of the goods they need for none gvg uses. To try to reduce the effect this added feature would have on the regular game play(non gvg) i think a 2fp fee would be acceptable, especially since i'd guess most of the treasury to treasury trades will be bulk trades.

Note: Trades between a guild member and their own treasury would have no fp fee.
 

patrick3377

Corporal
+1

I'd love to treat treasury as a 'guild bank', no matter guild's involved in GvG or not the goods and possibility to use them is a good idea.
If that was up to me, I'd allow guild members to withdraw goods with set daily limit (eg founder can take all, leader 100 per day, trusted 20... all others nothing).

Using the treasury in trade system may be a bit too tricky and difficult to implement and control.
 

DeletedUser105579

+1

I'd love to treat treasury as a 'guild bank', no matter guild's involved in GvG or not the goods and possibility to use them is a good idea.
If that was up to me, I'd allow guild members to withdraw goods with set daily limit (eg founder can take all, leader 100 per day, trusted 20... all others nothing).

Using the treasury in trade system may be a bit too tricky and difficult to implement and control.

I disagree with you. allowing guildmates to take goods out damages any and all guilds participating in gvg. as for differet amounts for different importance, that harms the bottom members of the guild who are needed to grow.

+1 to the original idea. it can be done so that goods trade is done with guild bank same age trade rules or such.
 

DeletedUser96901

-1

the goods stored can be set at a trade rate of 1:2 down an age , 1:1 same age and 2:1 up an age
paying 100 CE goods and trading them to 51200 iron age goods :rolleyes:

and don't say you can do that on the normal market
because you sure don't find enough people to get 51200 goods from iron age

and if you think it is possible:
prove me wrong and make it once at the market ;)
(and post 2 screenshot of the goods: before you start and when you are finished with 51200 more iron age goods)

and trades in the same age: do it on the normal market
because that feature would be for lazy people: producing their two (or three) good from an age and donating without think if those goods are missing or other
 
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DeletedUser15432

Well, seeing as it was discussed in the forum some time ago that the maximum quantity of any single good that can be held in your stockpile is 9999, it would therefore be impossible for any single player to make a trade of 51,200 of any single good unless they were able to offset the trade against another similar trade to recoup their expenditure of goods

I think that this idea might be workable, but only with the guild leaders/founder having the ability to do these trades

As it is currently suggested, this idea does not fully rate, however, if more information and safeguards were put in, I would give this a +1 rating
 
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patrick3377

Corporal
@Test Ament: That's why I think it's better to be able to withdraw some limited amount of goods instead of trade, and you provided good example of how tricky the trade may be.

If guild leadership can set the minimum reserve that has to be always in treasure for particular ages, and set limits how much members can take daily/weekly it may be of benefit to all. Mature guilds will probably set rules on how it should be looking like, making the bank flexible enough to suit every guild not only the GvG ones.

@Strategy Master:
1) If the reserve limit is setup, you cant replenish goods required for GvG
2) Limits for withdrawal should be different depending on the rank, as you don't want newcomers (and trolls) to take your well earned goods.
If untrusted person require some goods, always can ask other members for help - that's how banks works in other games and there it works very well.
3) These limits per rank allow leadership act quickly when required big amount of goods to trade on normal market for what they need, and prevents 'just anyone' take hundred of goods. It's not unfair to regular players, unless we speak about not responsible and childish leaders. The limits of good for regular player has to be low (like 20, 50) so everyone can enjoy existence of the bank
 
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DeletedUser96901

Well, seeing as it was discussed in the forum some time ago that the maximum quantity of any single good that can be held in your stockpile is 9999,
not it is not: that is only a myth

because players are telling and telling that so often that other believe that is true
but it isn't :rolleyes:

and how can the limit be discussed:
there is one or not: what can be discussed there :confused:

or opinions from players (which can be wrong) can be discussed

here a link to someone (Anwar, game designer) who knows more than the average player who is "discussing" a fact
but according to that link there is in fact a limit: 2,147,483,647 :eek:

it would therefore be impossible for any single player to make a trade of 51,200 of any single good
there is a limit in the trade: tried it and the maximum amount I want is 1000 (maybe it was higher in the past)
but we could make 60 trade with less than 1000 goods ;)
 
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DeletedUser110117

I had made a suggestion similar to this about leaders being able to allow members to borrow from the treasury and got mixed reviews. I think that even guilds that do GVG and GE most have surpluses of goods that should be able to help their guildmates develop their towns with GBs and techs completed if the leaders are ok with it. So I think this is similar to my idea therefore +1
 

Emberguard

Legend
If the idea is goods in the treasury are being changed into a different age good and remaining within the treasury then I'd say absolutely

No guild needs arctic age goods in their treasury but the arcs, obs and atom still produce those goods

If the idea is to be able to remove goods from the treasury for use in building GBs and negotiating GE etc then it'd be very handy for founder/leader to be able to remove arctic goods for trade to other members given again, the GBs add arctic future goods that can't ever be used

A vital feature to this idea if it's removal of goods is that leaders/founders would be able to put restrictions on who can move or remove stock
 
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