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Guild Forum Removal - Feedback

Kray Karen

Private
One aspect about the forum that I would like you to consider, is that in the forum, we scroll down and in the message centre, we scroll up. Scrolling down is generally more approproate for forum posts (Starting with the oldest and moving through the added) At the very least, the ability to be able to pin the subject post
 

joesoap

Major-General
this forum is a bit similar to the ingame guild forums, not every1 reads or uses it, a lot of it is nonsense that only means something to a few players (mostly those that have taken time to post it) but there are a few bits of relevant info & some1 from a guild will check threads & posts & it they find something thats useful to their guild members then they copy & paste the info or the topic link
 
Using the cellphone while walking? Sounds like more reason for cars to have to watch out for brainless speedbumps, while smashing that cellphone to bits. It is people who think they should be walking and using their phones that are the cause of so many problems today - bumping into people in the malls, walking in front of vehicles, at the dinner table, on a date ... no, do not make things easier for those who are foolish enough to exclusively use a mobile and at the same time ignoring the rest of society to their own detriment. (although it is quite hilarious watching someone concentrating on their cellphone walking into a signpost!)
I dont try to promote that. All I said is that some people use cellphones exclusively. The rest was only an example of how it is used. I personally know a friend who only play on his cellphone. He dont use it when he walk, but he use his cellphone to play games. There is also other mobile devices - like I-Pads - that is not so light that you can play while walking, but they are mobile devices that is used exclusively by some game players.
 

klods hans

Monarch
I dont try to promote that. All I said is that some people use cellphones exclusively. The rest was only an example of how it is used. I personally know a friend who only play on his cellphone. He dont use it when he walk, but he use his cellphone to play games. There is also other mobile devices - like I-Pads - that is not so light that you can play while walking, but they are mobile devices that is used exclusively by some game players.
I exclusively play on PC. Hate playing on app.
 
In determining if Guild Forum Removal needs to be eliminated for lack of use, There needs to be an analysis of a subset of the guild data:

1st) analyzing All guilds for use of the forum, will yield incorrect results.
ie. →1000 guilds of 5 or less members don't need the guild forum and won't use it. Having this data present in the calculation will skew the results!

2nd) Guilds of 30 or more members need it to convey data & information that is impractical to maintain in a message thread.

Suggestion: Send out a msg thru the message center - official tab -- to All Guild Founders of Guilds with 30 or members and request their feedback specifically -- you will get a better feel for whether the "Guild Forum" is an essential feature or not.
 

Knight of ICE

FoE Team
Forum Moderator
Suggestion: Send out a msg thru the message center - official tab -- to All Guild Founders of Guilds with 30 or members and request their feedback specifically -- you will get a better feel for whether the "Guild Forum" is an essential feature or not.
How would those founders know how many of their members use the guild forum? Should they send out a message to their members as well? Do you actually think it is possible to send a message to all guild founders with 30 or members in the current system?
 
How would those founders know how many of their members use the guild forum? Should they send out a message to their members as well? Do you actually think it is possible to send a message to all guild founders with 30 or members in the current system?
The founders are the main root of all guild activities including the forum - they have to set it up & they issue the rights to the topics

Regardless, point #1 is the more important item. Staff may or may not choose to analyze the data that way.
→ 1st) analyzing All guilds for use of the forum, will yield incorrect results.
ie. →1000 guilds of 5 or less members don't need the guild forum and won't use it. Having this data present in the calculation will skew the results!

But, that is the only real indicator of a valid analysis -- again, you need to analyze a subset of data to get the correct result.
 
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Knight of ICE

FoE Team
Forum Moderator
The founders are the main root of all guild activities including the forum - they have to set it up & they issue the rights to the topics]
They probably did so years ago and I know more founders that stepped back and took an honorary position in the guild, than founders that are still active. Also, very likely, there are a lot of founders that only play the app.

Regardless, point #1 is the more important item. Staff may or may not choose to analyze the data that way.
→ 1st) analyzing All guilds for use of the forum, will yield incorrect results.
ie. →1000 guilds of 5 or less members don't need the guild forum and won't use it. Having this data present in the calculation will skew the results!

But, that is the only real indicator of a valid analysis -- again, you need to analyze a subset of data to get the correct result.
Real indicator is that the majority of players plays on the app and can not access the guild forum.
 
They probably did so years ago and I know more founders that stepped back and took an honorary position in the guild, than founders that are still active. Also, very likely, there are a lot of founders that only play the app.



Real indicator is that the majority of players plays on the app and can not access the guild forum.
If that is the case why was the removal delayed? If no one is using it & most people play on the app - (I never play on the app) why was there an immediate backlash concerning it's removal?
 
They probably did so years ago and I know more founders that stepped back and took an honorary position in the guild, than founders that are still active. Also, very likely, there are a lot of founders that only play the app.
Real indicator is that the majority of players plays on the app and can not access the guild forum.
Where do you play? rhetorical, but I don't agree that most founders are inactive. Not true on our server. Maybe original founders have stepped back or moved on; I am not an original founder of my guild but rights were transferred to me 5 years ago after the founder was inactive for 30 days. If founders aren't active, they'll be demoted to regular guild members.

I think what KoK meant was guild leaders, not so much literally founders. And it's correct that you can't judge guild forum usage based out of the total of all guilds, tiny guilds or mostly inactive guilds. That's super obvious though, just like you can't judge anything based on all player accounts when lots of them are inactive or multi-world accounts that get logged into once a week or once a month.

The developers could analyze the data (they have it all!) any way they want, but there's no real desire to save the forum or prove its usefulness. If it doesn't work on the phone app, the attitude seems to be, screw the original browser game and all the PC players. Too much work to just adapt the forum concept to the phone app, apparently? Players being able to communicate really doesn't seem to be high on the priority list - and it's a shame because it's the team aspect that retains most players. You know the mobile app didn't even have messages until October 2015? Of course not, but we spent a whole year not even being able to talk to a bunch of silent phone users! https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com...ate-1-61-messaging-for-mobiles-is-here.11171/

I'm pretty tired of feeling like I'm discriminated against for playing on an actual computer, especially considering when I started this game the browser was the ONLY option! It's one thing to add mobile and cross-platform features, it's another entirely to take away original PC features - AND specifically state the main reason is the app players can't use it! Wow, so what. And though I'm apparently outnumbered by the people with a phone growing out of their hand 24/7, I hate playing on the app. The more you turn this into an app game the more your original fan base will leave. Which may seem fine for a while, but it will hurt the bottom line in the long run.
 

Knight of ICE

FoE Team
Forum Moderator
What does this have to do with the question?
It answers it.

I'm pretty tired of feeling like I'm discriminated against for playing on an actual computer, especially considering when I started this game the browser was the ONLY option! It's one thing to add mobile and cross-platform features, it's another entirely to take away original PC features - AND specifically state the main reason is the app players can't use it!
As a player I totally agree with you on that. I also am a PC player of the early hour. However, taking the guild forums away cause app players can't use them has never been stated. As a player, I think it is a factor that has been taken into consideration. Another thing taken into consideration surely is the use of the guild forum. My guild has had one from the start, but it has not been used in the last couple of years.

And though I'm apparently outnumbered by the people with a phone growing out of their hand 24/7, I hate playing on the app. The more you turn this into an app game the more your original fan base will leave. Which may seem fine for a while, but it will hurt the bottom line in the long run.
How can it hurt the bottom line if the numbers show there are more app players than PC players and that they spend way more?
 

Emberguard

Legend
1st) analyzing All guilds for use of the forum, will yield incorrect results.
ie. →1000 guilds of 5 or less members don't need the guild forum and won't use it. Having this data present in the calculation will skew the results!
Guild forums are not limited to guild size. Smaller guilds may still have use for it. Removing part of the data in the way you suggest would skew the results. It’d be more accurate to graph the data usage based on size of guild. To take different samples based on different components and get a fuller picture rather then just removing a part to fit the narrative you want. Then you would see exactly where the guild forums are or are not being utilised.

2nd) Guilds of 30 or more members need it to convey data & information that is impractical to maintain in a message thread.
Not all guilds of 30+ have need of a forum.

Suggestion: Send out a msg thru the message center - official tab -- to All Guild Founders of Guilds with 30 or members and request their feedback specifically -- you will get a better feel for whether the "Guild Forum" is an essential feature or not.
This was already done by sending a system wide message asking for feedback from everybody.

If you restrict it to Founders only in 30+ member guilds then you’re introducing a bias into the results. Instead of getting actual feedback you’d be getting confirmation bias. You’d also lose feedback because not everyone reads the announcements and you’d be relying on the Founders to read and then pass on the info. Which would first require them to read it but also require them to know no one else received the message....
 

klods hans

Monarch
Where do you play? rhetorical, but I don't agree that most founders are inactive. Not true on our server. Maybe original founders have stepped back or moved on; I am not an original founder of my guild but rights were transferred to me 5 years ago after the founder was inactive for 30 days. If founders aren't active, they'll be demoted to regular guild members.

I think what KoK meant was guild leaders, not so much literally founders. And it's correct that you can't judge guild forum usage based out of the total of all guilds, tiny guilds or mostly inactive guilds. That's super obvious though, just like you can't judge anything based on all player accounts when lots of them are inactive or multi-world accounts that get logged into once a week or once a month.

The developers could analyze the data (they have it all!) any way they want, but there's no real desire to save the forum or prove its usefulness. If it doesn't work on the phone app, the attitude seems to be, screw the original browser game and all the PC players. Too much work to just adapt the forum concept to the phone app, apparently? Players being able to communicate really doesn't seem to be high on the priority list - and it's a shame because it's the team aspect that retains most players. You know the mobile app didn't even have messages until October 2015? Of course not, but we spent a whole year not even being able to talk to a bunch of silent phone users! https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com...ate-1-61-messaging-for-mobiles-is-here.11171/

I'm pretty tired of feeling like I'm discriminated against for playing on an actual computer, especially considering when I started this game the browser was the ONLY option! It's one thing to add mobile and cross-platform features, it's another entirely to take away original PC features - AND specifically state the main reason is the app players can't use it! Wow, so what. And though I'm apparently outnumbered by the people with a phone growing out of their hand 24/7, I hate playing on the app. The more you turn this into an app game the more your original fan base will leave. Which may seem fine for a while, but it will hurt the bottom line in the long run.
Spot on - again :-)
 
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Groovy Prof

Corporal
My last word on subject (honest)
Where do you play? rhetorical, but I don't agree that most founders are inactive. Not true on our server. Maybe original founders have stepped back or moved on; I am not an original founder of my guild but rights were transferred to me 5 years ago after the founder was inactive for 30 days. If founders aren't active, they'll be demoted to regular guild members.

I think what KoK meant was guild leaders, not so much literally founders. And it's correct that you can't judge guild forum usage based out of the total of all guilds, tiny guilds or mostly inactive guilds. That's super obvious though, just like you can't judge anything based on all player accounts when lots of them are inactive or multi-world accounts that get logged into once a week or once a month.

The developers could analyze the data (they have it all!) any way they want, but there's no real desire to save the forum or prove its usefulness. If it doesn't work on the phone app, the attitude seems to be, screw the original browser game and all the PC players. Too much work to just adapt the forum concept to the phone app, apparently? Players being able to communicate really doesn't seem to be high on the priority list - and it's a shame because it's the team aspect that retains most players. You know the mobile app didn't even have messages until October 2015? Of course not, but we spent a whole year not even being able to talk to a bunch of silent phone users! https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com...ate-1-61-messaging-for-mobiles-is-here.11171/

I'm pretty tired of feeling like I'm discriminated against for playing on an actual computer, especially considering when I started this game the browser was the ONLY option! It's one thing to add mobile and cross-platform features, it's another entirely to take away original PC features - AND specifically state the main reason is the app players can't use it! Wow, so what. And though I'm apparently outnumbered by the people with a phone growing out of their hand 24/7, I hate playing on the app. The more you turn this into an app game the more your original fan base will leave. Which may seem fine for a while, but it will hurt the bottom line in the long run.
I was taught, by my very good maths teacher, that there are "Lies, Damn Lies and statistics" meaning stats can be manipulated to mean whatever you want.
In general PC users (old skool) are far more loyal than app users, who because of the very nature of apps can be far more fickle, plus due to the large volume of ever increasing apps who can blame them.
For me I prefer PC. I have a nice big screen, a mouse makes it easier to be more accurate than my big fat fingers, plus far more responsive than my bleedin phone that sometimes doesn't accept my finger movements...(don't get me started on my * phone that is sometimes unresponsive!)
Making this game app friendly is a good thing, and can increase it's use. I would suggest making the app as friendly as the PC version and not the other way round. The PC version should be your bench mark. All the myriad of positive aspects, no matter how seemingly insignificant, that have gone into making this game successful, should not be dismissed so lightly.
Long and short of it is that, the bottom line is and can be effected in so many ways, not immediately apparent, but to rely solely on app users for your income is a huge mistake.
 
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For me I prefer PC. I have a nice big screen, a mouse makes it easier to be more accurate than my big fat fingers, plus far more responsive than my bleedin phone that sometimes doesn't accept my finger movements...(don't get me started on my * phone that is sometimes unresponsive!)
I'm the other way around, I find playing on the pc extremely slow moving the mouse all over the place and clicking. Far faster to slide my finger over the screen and tap tap tap
 

klods hans

Monarch
I'm the other way around, I find playing on the pc extremely slow moving the mouse all over the place and clicking. Far faster to slide my finger over the screen and tap tap tap
If my fingers were as tiny and narrow as the tip of a mouse pointer, and if I didn't get muscle cramps in my hands after 10 minutes of tapping, maybe I'd enjoy playing on phone. Phone screens are too tiny though for a game like FOE imo. Tablets a little better. But no mobile devices beat a big desktop monitor (and a mouse!).
Totally off topic, sorry.