Forwarded: (Great Buildings) A balance

[DeletedUser107476]

Proposal

A new Great Building.

Reason

At the moment all Great Buildings being produced seem to aid the attacker not the defender. At the moment there is Zeus, Aachen, CdM all adding boosts to the attacker. Add in Orangery and The Kraken and the attacker is being a massive advantage.

Details

The Hanging Gardens of Babylon would be a new Great Building. Released during an event it would be an all ages one. The boosts would be attack and defensive boost for defending armies and the second boost would be a bonus percent of goods produced from goods buildings.

Balance

One of the main reasons that defensive armies do not work is their lack of attack bonus this would go a long way towards fixing that issue.

Abuse

N/A

Summary

As mentioned before this would counter a lot of the balance issues at the moment which support the attacker and not the defender.​

 

[DeletedUser110615]

Deal Castle and Saint Basil's Cathedral give attack/defense bonus to defending army.

 

[DeletedUser107476]

Deal Castle and Saint Basil's Cathedral give attack/defense bonus to defending army.

They do, but that is 2 Great Buildings compared to 3 for attacking army. Plus the attacking army has Orangery and The Kraken. As stated this about balancing out the Defensive Great Buildings with the attacking ones.

 

[DeletedUser111589]

Sounds good but his do you plan on increasing bonus good?

Perhaps a chance of doubling the produced goods?

 

[DeletedUser107476]

The percentage would go up as it levelled, on same principle as other Great Buildings.

 

[DeletedUser110195]

Maybe what we need are 3 new GBs, one to add more attack/defense to defending armies, one to reduce the chance to be crit by same age units and one to give a chance to add a unit to your defense for a given battle(for a possible 9 units defending)

 

[DeletedUser99692]

+1 from Me this would help the lower ages the most.

 

[DeletedUser12400]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/o5JqqJB.png[/IMG] ​

I don't really mind.

 

[DeletedUser111351]

I'm all for balance, and I never like being plundered. That said, defensive GBs are mostly a waste. They might prevent some of the plundering that takes place against me, but they also cost me the space that could be used for often 2 or 3 additional production buildings. So they sometimes protect me from losing 1 or 2 collections at the cost of losing 2 or 3 collections guaranteed every day. That's with only one defensive GB. As soon as one starts saying build multiple defensive GB, they are giving away so much more income then they'll ever lose to plundering.

This doesn't even take into account the fact that defensive buildings are non-participation buildings. Goods, medals, coins, supplies, barracks, offensive boosts, all of these things are built and then the player actively uses them in an activity to play the game. Defensive buildings change what some other players do or don't do, but they aren't usable by the player who builds them. They're just dead weight.

Some defense requirements can be forced onto the player just so that the game is at least somewhat playable (if they are really plundered heavily). The more defense that gets built, the less the player has to build anything making the game playable. Instead of adding more and more defensive GB that most players will continue to ignore, I'd much rather see the creation of defense that doesn't require taking up space.

Give every city a City Wall (at later ages this can change names to be called City Trenches, City Bunkers, City Radar, City Energy Shield, whatever). This defense is considered to be surrounding the city and uses none of the development space. This can give defenders added defense or offense, maybe it gives them all 1 extra hitpoint, maybe it takes away 1 hitpoint from all attackers (before they can even retreat), whatever, some means of power boost. Maybe this defense has stages and it is possible to activate multiple of these skills.

Let's say this Wall deteriorates daily (maybe it deteriorates from full to nothing in 3 days, 7 days, maybe more or less). Players put in current age goods or supplies or coins to pump it back up. So anyone who goes inactive or who ignores their wall will get no benefit from it. Maybe it has stages as I said. Maybe players can fill 1 stage worth per day and it deteriorates half or a quarter of a stage per day. Thus players who fill it daily can eventually fill all 3 or 5 stages or however many there are and maintain it there to receive maximum benefit from it. Or maybe each stage is separate (coins and supplies upgrade a weak stage wall boost; goods generate a moderate stage wall boost; medals generate a strong boost; for that matter there could even be an FP stage boost).

 

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Lets calculate this.

If the GB will be 5x5= 25 space and on LVL 10 will give 30% def boost, like other two defensive building.

I have right now 30 watchfire and 8 ritual flame that is 46space and 184% defence boost.

Hm...not so interesting. I am an attacker, BUT let give the chanse to the people for that building, because of that:

+1

 

[DeletedUser111589]

Lets calculate this.

If the GB will be 5x5= 25 space and on LVL 10 will give 30% def boost, like other two defensive building.

I have right now 30 watchfire and 8 ritual flame that is 46space and 184% defence boost.

Hm...not so interesting. I am an attacker, BUT let give the chanse to the people for that building, because of that:

+1

But look at the other bonus. Watchfires are more advanced as far a defense % goes however they cant give second bonus which makes defense GB viable for a farmer.

 

[DeletedUser107476]

There is a further advantage too for the defender. Which is it ups the attack percentage as well as the defence percentage. This allows the defender to get 90% attack if all 3 defence Great Buildings are in and at 90%.

 

[DeletedUser17180]

+1

the second boost would be a bonus percent of goods produced from goods buildings.

'bonus percent' might be problematic. for example, 7% bonus on 20 lumber would mean 1.4 lumber. i'm guessing the goods amount will be rounded off, so does 1.4 lumber get rounded off to 1 or 2?
i think a better boost idea would be a certain percent chance of getting double goods from one goods building in 24 hours.

 

[DeletedUser111351]

+1


'bonus percent' might be problematic. for example, 7% bonus on 20 lumber would mean 1.4 lumber. i'm guessing the goods amount will be rounded off, so does 1.4 lumber get rounded off to 1 or 2?
i think a better boost idea would be a certain percent chance of getting double goods from one goods building in 24 hours.

There is a problem with doubling the output of a goods building. Production is designed to reward small production times. Players get more by doing lots of, in the case of goods, 4 hour productions. This yields way more than doing 1 day or 2. Making a GB that doubles goods production for just 1 collection can make the longer cycles the more productive.

Side note, the game already does rounding. Plenty of GB give a boost on troop strength in percent. Well, it's possible the game actually uses the exact calculated number, but the number "claimed" to be used is certainly rounded off. There's nothing wrong with rounding. The bigger problem is one can make goods in increments of 5, which means quite a few levels of the GB would not give enough boost to add even a single good, making it useless.

 

[DeletedUser111589]

There is a problem with doubling the output of a goods building. Production is designed to reward small production times. Players get more by doing lots of, in the case of goods, 4 hour productions. This yields way more than doing 1 day or 2. Making a GB that doubles goods production for just 1 collection can make the longer cycles the more productive.

Side note, the game already does rounding. Plenty of GB give a boost on troop strength in percent. Well, it's possible the game actually uses the exact calculated number, but the number "claimed" to be used is certainly rounded off. There's nothing wrong with rounding. The bigger problem is one can make goods in increments of 5, which means quite a few levels of the GB would not give enough boost to add even a single good, making it useless.

Therefore, a chance to double goods production would be better. Rainforest chance would be perfect but that's too much, so ToR chance is more viable.

 

[DeletedUser17180]

The bigger problem is one can make goods in increments of 5, which means quite a few levels of the GB would not give enough boost to add even a single good, making it useless.

Then it could be done like LoA. LoA's passive boost is "Supply Boost: The first 40 supply collections are increased by X% of the base amount. Refreshes with next collection from this building".
Maybe something similar to that could be beneficial even for 4 hour good production? For example, "first X no. of goods collections are increased by 20% of the base amount". This means, we'd get 5+1 goods for 4-hour production, 10+2 goods for 8-hour production, and so on.
BUT, the percentage increases every 5 levels, such that level 5, the percentage will increase by 40% so that on the next level it would be 5+2, 10+4, and so on.

 

[DeletedUser111351]

Then it could be done like LoA. LoA's passive boost is "Supply Boost: The first 40 supply collections are increased by X% of the base amount.

Yeah, something like that could work. Goods buildings do tend to take up a lot more space (themselves and with required support) plus a lot longer production cycles than supplies though. It isn't possible to get nearly the number of collections done in a single 24-hour cycle. So compared with LoA the percent reward should probably be a lot higher and the number of collections lower.

 

[DeletedUser111848]

it might not work so

Neutral ​

 

[DeletedUser96901]

'bonus percent' might be problematic. for example, 7% bonus on 20 lumber would mean 1.4 lumber. i'm guessing the goods amount will be rounded off, so does 1.4 lumber get rounded off to 1 or 2?

1.4 = 1

why should a new GB work different to the existing GB (like Chateau Frontenac or the other GB with percentages)
there you always need .5 to get the higher value

 

[DeletedUser111351]

1.4 = 1

why should a new GB work different to the existing GB (like Chateau Frontenac or the other GB with percentages)
there you always need .5 to get the higher value

It depends on how high the percent boost starts out and how it increments. The problem with percent boost and goods production is that goods production values are very small (increments of only 5, rather than things like coins and supplies which arrive in terms of 100's and 1000's). At 5 goods the boost needs to reach 10% before hitting that magic 0.5 to actually receive any gain. That percentage then needs to go up to 30% before a gain is noticed again.

In other words:
5 goods boosted 9% = 5
5 goods boosted 10% = 6
5 goods boosted 29% = 6

If the boost starts out at 50% and then goes to 100% and so forth, sure, there's no problem (although that likely makes the GB way overpowered). If the boost progression is like 3, 6, 9% then there are too many levels of the GB that don't provide any benefit.

Sure, one could say that people can do 24-hour production, not 4-hour production and then a benefit actually exists. But the purpose of this game's design is to encourage more frequent visits. Making a GB that only rewards doing the longer production cycles is counterproductive.

So if something like this were to be implemented, it should be designed in a way that benefits all the different production cycles. And GB levels need to frequently increase the reward received.