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GBG.

Xeon of Camelot

Major-General
Please try and stop your silly off-topic personal insinuations, if you continue like you do it's only a matter of time before you lose.
What people say with their guildmates has nothing to do with you or GbG.
 

Arabanoo

Private
Only reason you call it bullying is because you are losing. They will call it strategy. You may need the rewards, but that does not mean you are entitled to them. It is a Battleground, not a slumber party. Nothing in the rules that say you should share. When you lose at Monopoly does that mean the person wining is bullying you? Should they let you keep something just to keep you happy? Do you call that person a fascist dictator? Yes it is a game and in a game you can lose. Happens in real life as wel. If Armand Duplantis shows up for a polevault competition you know who will win. Does that make him a bully? Should he deliberately start missing jumps so others would feel better. They can probably use first place money. Should he hand it to them because of that? He has plenty.

What it comes down to is that you are just a bad loser. If you can not deal with losing you should not be playing.
You see that's the difference between us, you say I'm losing however, the number one guild and others have invited me to join several times because I am up there. The difference is that I can win and maintain a decent moral compass so I stick with my guild by choice. The need to win at all costs is not the determining factor as to why I play. I don't need to feel good ruining others' fun playing the game like my life depends on it. It is a game, meant for fun, your ego can't be that fragile (comparing us to professional athletes I do wonder). We are not professional athletes or gamers we are ordinary people playing a game. We can choose to win and help others or we can make ourselves feel good by ruining it for others, same as monopoly. It all depends on whether you are deluding yourself that by winning games at others' expense makes you a winner. We are not playing for a living or sheep stations and we have an option to win and maintain a good moral compass, or not. You continue to miss my point about some guilds being just bullies, not because they are not entitled to win, winning is irrelevant because bullies even ruin it when they are not in the number one spot, it's the way they play the game and how they treat others.
 

Agent327

Legend
You see that's the difference between us, you say I'm losing however, the number one guild and others have invited me to join several times because I am up there. The difference is that I can win and maintain a decent moral compass so I stick with my guild by choice. The need to win at all costs is not the determining factor as to why I play. I don't need to feel good ruining others' fun playing the game like my life depends on it. It is a game, meant for fun, your ego can't be that fragile (comparing us to professional athletes I do wonder). We are not professional athletes or gamers we are ordinary people playing a game. We can choose to win and help others or we can make ourselves feel good by ruining it for others, same as monopoly. It all depends on whether you are deluding yourself that by winning games at others' expense makes you a winner. We are not playing for a living or sheep stations and we have an option to win and maintain a good moral compass, or not. You continue to miss my point about some guilds being just bullies, not because they are not entitled to win, winning is irrelevant because bullies even ruin it when they are not in the number one spot, it's the way they play the game and how they treat others.

You claim to have a decent moral compass, yet you have no problem insulting others by calling them bullies, just because they do not play a game the way you think they should do. Problem is you have absolutely no say in how others should play. This game has rules and as long as those rules are followed what they do is allowed. I am getting fed up withg players that based on their "moral compass" think they can decide how others should play. Unfair trades are allowed. Plundering is allowed. In GBG blocking in, using traps, removing province buillding and leaving sectors at 259/260 is allowed. It does not make you a bully if you do .If you have a problem with what they do you can always leave the game. It should not be they need to adjust what they do because of your "moral compass". That only makes you look like a Jehovah's witness.
 

Nidwin

Major
This game is full of "bullies" everywhere and not just top guilds in GbG.

It's bullies who require you to sent a pm to beg for a spot on their GB while you also need to put the exact number of fp's otherwise it becomes drama queen telling you how big of a noob you are. Of course because I'm also a bully I simply took the spots I wanted by putting the amount of fp's that I saw fit.

It's "bullies" sending me friends requests while I clearly mentioned on the global chat that I would like to not receive friends requests anymore as I don't need friends. Of course I'm the super bully because as my GB's are open for all they loose the opportunity, except when in my neighborhood, to get some extra free fps, medals, bp's, whatever. Some even tagged my GB's with 1fp and this has never disturbed me, ever.

It's "bullies" sending me pm's for trades for Titan goods and now SASH ones. I already stated on global chat that I won't put up the SASH GB's (useless for my city) and simply drop the SASH in my guild vault for personal global ranking. Of course I'm the super bully because I could help so many other players with SASH goods and have plenty of other, alas crappy goods, to drop in my guild vault.

It's bullies sending me guild invites for whatever reason. This means that I've always to decline in a friendly way their invitation by telling them also I'm fine in my personal one man guild. I even put up a logo referring to my guild, such an arrogant bully Nidwin as he could remove that useless logo and put stuff up that could benefit other players on the server. Stuff like more SAT or SASH goods to trade for crappy FE goods.

Telling you folks. Bullies everywhere.
 

Arabanoo

Private
You claim to have a decent moral compass, yet you have no problem insulting others by calling them bullies, just because they do not play a game the way you think they should do. Problem is you have absolutely no say in how others should play. This game has rules and as long as those rules are followed what they do is allowed. I am getting fed up withg players that based on their "moral compass" think they can decide how others should play. Unfair trades are allowed. Plundering is allowed. In GBG blocking in, using traps, removing province buillding and leaving sectors at 259/260 is allowed. It does not make you a bully if you do .If you have a problem with what they do you can always leave the game. It should not be they need to adjust what they do because of your "moral compass". That only makes you look like a Jehovah's witness
 

Arabanoo

Private
You continue to miss the point, I am not telling you or anyone else how to play, I'm simply calling out certain actions that impact on whole guilds as being bullying, if that is too close to home that is not my issue. Plundering etc are within the rules as you point out and I have no issues with them, guilds that believe it is OK to dominate and dictate for days at a time what you can and can't do in GBG are different. Many of us are trying to nurture guilds and build them up to be competitive, however, when it comes to GBG some guilds cannot see beyond their own noses and seem to invest their entire ego in bullying other guilds by not allowing them to compete in GBG. That then means we either make excuses to new players for you and Inno or just not engage in GBG. I'm not sure why you suggest looking like a Jehovah's Witness should be seen as an insult. Seems not only will you defend bullying but you feel it's OK to demonise religious groups. Is this really who you are?
 

Agent327

Legend
You continue to miss the point, I am not telling you or anyone else how to play, I'm simply calling out certain actions that impact on whole guilds as being bullying, if that is too close to home that is not my issue. Plundering etc are within the rules as you point out and I have no issues with them, guilds that believe it is OK to dominate and dictate for days at a time what you can and can't do in GBG are different. Many of us are trying to nurture guilds and build them up to be competitive, however, when it comes to GBG some guilds cannot see beyond their own noses and seem to invest their entire ego in bullying other guilds by not allowing them to compete in GBG. That then means we either make excuses to new players for you and Inno or just not engage in GBG. I'm not sure why you suggest looking like a Jehovah's Witness should be seen as an insult. Seems not only will you defend bullying but you feel it's OK to demonise religious groups. Is this really who you are?

If you were not telling others how to play, you would not call out their actions. You would just let them play the way they are. Saying that you have no issues with plundering, but what you can and can't do in GBG is different, proves that even more. Has it ever occured to you that for those Guilds it is all about Guild Ranking and that they follow a strategy that they think will place and keep them at the top? It is a Battleground, not a Tupperware party where you get free gifts. You are not entitlked to any "rewards". The old adagio not to engage in GBG is getting tiresome. Don't engage if that is such a big problem for you. I am not defending bullies. I am just sick and tired of people acccusing others of being bullies the moment they do something you do not agree with.
 

Arabanoo

Private
If you were not telling others how to play, you would not call out their actions. You would just let them play the way they are. Saying that you have no issues with plundering, but what you can and can't do in GBG is different, proves that even more. Has it ever occured to you that for those Guilds it is all about Guild Ranking and that they follow a strategy that they think will place and keep them at the top? It is a Battleground, not a Tupperware party where you get free gifts. You are not entitlked to any "rewards". The old adagio not to engage in GBG is getting tiresome. Don't engage if that is such a big problem for you. I am not defending bullies. I am just sick and tired of people acccusing others of being bullies the moment they do something you do not agree with
 

Arabanoo

Private
Seem to have ignored the fact you demeaned a religion now Tupperware, just where are your boundaries? You seemed to have given me some extraordinary power, I don't believe that anyone has changed the way they play because of my opinion. I have no issues engaging in GBG, but that is because I have a reasonable attack and defence percentage. I don't call out bullies lightly I know what I know and that is after attempting to connect with these bullies to at least leave a few sectors so others could at least have a bit of fun their responses and reactions have been nothing but that of bullies. I am also not painting all top guilds with the same brush some have been very reasonable and happy to accommodate. I have never heard any "old adages" (adagio???), of not engaging, you are making this up as you go. What I did say was it is the only option when these bullies take over the entire map. That is a self-made condition by these bullies. At this very moment in my world this is very much the case, two guilds (same old bullies) have taken over the entire map so 4 other guilds can do nothing. What are their options? Not to engage and not because they choose to but they simply have no choice because of these bullies. Guild ranking in these types of circumstances has no meaning, being top of the bullies chart is something you can keep. I believe several world wars were fought over this very point. From your response, you are defending bullies on this point and I am only talking about one point not everything I disagree with. On this point, I will engage and I will call them out.
 

Agent327

Legend
Seem to have ignored the fact you demeaned a religion now Tupperware, just where are your boundaries? You seemed to have given me some extraordinary power, I don't believe that anyone has changed the way they play because of my opinion. I have no issues engaging in GBG, but that is because I have a reasonable attack and defence percentage. I don't call out bullies lightly I know what I know and that is after attempting to connect with these bullies to at least leave a few sectors so others could at least have a bit of fun their responses and reactions have been nothing but that of bullies. I am also not painting all top guilds with the same brush some have been very reasonable and happy to accommodate. I have never heard any "old adages" (adagio???), of not engaging, you are making this up as you go. What I did say was it is the only option when these bullies take over the entire map. That is a self-made condition by these bullies. At this very moment in my world this is very much the case, two guilds (same old bullies) have taken over the entire map so 4 other guilds can do nothing. What are their options? Not to engage and not because they choose to but they simply have no choice because of these bullies. Guild ranking in these types of circumstances has no meaning, being top of the bullies chart is something you can keep. I believe several world wars were fought over this very point. From your response, you are defending bullies on this point and I am only talking about one point not everything I disagree with. On this point, I will engage and I will call them out.

If you want to reply to someone by quoting them, you use reply and then put your comments in the post you created. You do not need to start a new one.

I don't give you any power. You seem to think you have, otherwise you would not address this here. Isn't attempting to connect with others cause you do not agree with what they do bullying as well? Have they asked you to give them your opinion? Nidwin labels this as bullying and I have to agree with him. So basically you are a bully accusing others. Does that mean I need to defend you now?

Taking over the entire map is a strategic advantage. Why not use it if you can? Those 4 other Guilds can do more than just not engage. They can work together and put in a better effort. These 2 Guilds probably have players waiting that will attack the moment a sector opens up. You can do the same and with more players than they have you can beat them for that sector. All you need to do is organise it, but that is probably to much to ask. You just want to sit on your ass and take a sector when it suits you. The problem is not those 2 Guilds. The problem is that you and your Guild are not made for Battlegrounds. Start to focus on GE and QI where you have no direct opponents.

On this point, I will engage and I will call them out.

You just explained that you do not engage, but just sit in your homebase waiting it out. Now who exactly are you calling out? Are you getting any reactions form your "bullies" here? So far you are sharing your feelings with players that probably do not even play on your world, let alone be part of the Guilds you accuse. You are the tree that falls in the forrest where nobody can hear the sound. Yes I know. I am demonishing trees. Better put that on the list as well.
 
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Arabanoo

Private
If you want to reply to someone by quoting them, you use reply and then put your comments in the post you created. You do not need to start a new one.

I don't give you any power. You seem to think you have, otherwise you would not address this here. Isn't attempting to connect with others cause you do not agree with what they do bullying as well? Have they asked you to give them your opinion? Nidwin labels this as bullying and I have to agree with him. So basically you are a bully accusing others. Does that mean I need to defend you now?

Taking over the entire map is a strategic advantage. Why not use it if you can? Those 4 other Guilds can do more than just not engage. They can work together and put in a better effort. These 2 Guilds probably have players waiting that will attack the moment a sector opens up. You can do the same and with more players than they have you can beat them for that sector. All you need to do is organise it, but that is probably to much to ask. You just want to sit on your ass and take a sector when it suits you. The problem is not those 2 Guilds. The problem is that you and your Guild are not made for Battlegrounds. Start to focus on GE and QI where you have no direct opponents.



You just explained that you do not engage, but just sit in your homebase waiting it out. Now who exactly are you calling out? Are you getting any reactions form your "bullies" here? So far you are sharing your feelings with players that probably do not even play on your world, let alone be part of the Guilds you accuse. You are the tree that falls in the forrest where nobody can hear the sound. Yes I know. I am demonishing trees. Better put that on the list as well.
You are mixing things up. I engage because I can however my guild (the members of it) and other guilds do not because they do not have the resources. I have spoken to many other guilds this is not the isolated opinion that you would like this to be. If I had power I would not be speaking up in this forum, something I thought would be obvious. Maybe you haven't been playing this game long as the contention that the other guilds just need to connect and organise is somewhat of a fantasy, in my world in any case the top guilds are in most cases very heavily populated so even if several other guilds got together (and yes I have been down this path) they still cannot win sectors. Your suggestions are not original. These top guilds actively headhunt fighters from other guilds, thereby ensuring opposition or the quality off is always limited. And before you get on your soap box no I don't consider that as bullying and is part of the game as it is the individual's choice. To reiterate. My issue is that we are continually frustrated and prevented from actively being involved in battling for sectors in GBG. I have mentioned I am as an individual player reasonably powerful concerning attack/defence percentages yet you claim I must just sit in my home base and wait it out. That is incongruent. Once again and I will type slowly for you, I am calling out the top guilds who fill all the sectors within 15 minutes of GBG starting and then proceed to dictate the rest of the game to other guilds, usually in partnership with other top guilds, and as I have stated before I am not suggesting all top guilds do this. This is bullying and using amateurish psychological methods such as oppositional conversation and reflecting the issue of being a bully back onto me only mirrors the fragile foundation from which you are arguing. In relation to speaking for my own world, I can't speak for others, however, many of the players I have spoken to have several cities in other worlds and from what I can ascertain from them this is not an isolated issue. The saying goes "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Philosophically you have misused the quote and from an English grammatical perspective, you have used it out of context as it is a question, not a statement. No, you are not demonising trees, just reflecting your limited understanding of philosophy. What you are trying to say is I am a "windbag" no need to try and look smart by unnecessarily using longer quotes particularly when you are not familiar with them.
 

Xeon of Camelot

Major-General
We have identified the problem, so what is the solution?

An ethical guild strategy suggested by a guildy could be:

1) Quickly identify base of next strongest guild and cut them off.
2) Head for second highest sector ring and take them all.
3) Take centre at leisure
4) Let the others have the rest
5) Swap sectors as they become available but dominate the centre.

That would be fine, but others will still attack ANY unlocked sector just for the rewards, so what might be the answer?
The problem with GbG is not only matchmaking; due to power crepe, players now have enough stats to overcome attrition.
IMHO It would take a complete re-design where it is impossible to lock down the map in only 20 minutes.

There are various ways to fix it, so let's try to help Inno by not arguing about the problem; let's use this thread more positively and try to suggest an answer.

Update: this is from beta spoiler 1729682393494.png
 
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DOOMSDAY9999

Private
Has Inno ever considered putting limits on the number of sectors one guild can take in a round of GBG? My guild and others continually experience top 10 guilds taking the majority of sectors in the first hour or so of the GBG starting. They then lock in sectors around your guild which prevents you from engaging in the game. These same guilds then work with a partner guild to take turns keeping you locked in. Once they decided to allow you to move out of your home sector the other guilds they have colluded with are so far ahead in points you cannot challenge them. I understand that is the advantage of being a top guild however the harm done to other guilds is significant. It is difficult enough to build a league as opposed to getting all your members to engage in GBG. The majority don't see the point in playing GBG as the outcome is dictated by the same old top ten leagues, it's not in your interest to be promoted so winning can be a disadvantage. Another outcome is we have to either kick out members who don't engage in GBG as playing GBG is part of the agreement of joining the guild or simply turn a blind eye, as most members do engage in all the other activities. I don't see any logical reason why one guild or two guilds find it necessary to cover the globe and then choose which guilds they will bully by locking in weaker guilds who don't pose any real threats. The big loser is Inno as players simply cease to engage and stop playing the broader game. I don't understand why Inno would allow systemic bullying by top guilds, Im sure they don't allow it in the workplace. A simple fix that would allow greater competition and engagement in GBG would be to limit how many sectors one guild can own at any one time. This would make GBG more fun, increase engagement and help other guilds to grow. I can see why the top guilds would push back on this idea. I have been invited by several to join them however morally and ethically I can't support bullying and much prefer to be in a guild where ego is not the primary motivator. Winning is not that important this is a game and can be fun when it's level playing field.
INNO just wants money, they dont care about players who dont spend money. They say they want to make game more competitive but all they do is making it easyer for big players and harder for us who have real life, excpecting we will spend money too. If they say they not, just read new QI update anouncment. Bunch of greedy rats
 

Arabanoo

Private
We have identified the problem, so what is the solution?

An ethical guild strategy suggested by a guildy could be:

1) Quickly identify base of next strongest guild and cut them off.
2) Head for second highest sector ring and take them all.
3) Take centre at leisure
4) Let the others have the rest
5) Swap sectors as they become available but dominate the centre.

That would be fine, but others will still attack ANY unlocked sector just for the rewards, so what might be the answer?
The problem with GbG is not only matchmaking; due to power crepe, players now have enough stats to overcome attrition.
IMHO It would take a complete re-design where it is impossible to lock down the map in only 20 minutes.

There are various ways to fix it, so let's try to help Inno by not arguing about the problem; let's use this thread more positively and try to suggest an answer.

Update: this is from beta spoiler View attachment 26005
Well, once again my guild finds itself in GBG with the top-ranking guilds and it took 2 guilds less than 10 minutes to take each sector. I know we are constantly assured no one is using bots but even when my guild gets 5 players together on one sector at the same time we lose even at times when we have 120 head start for 320 sector. Cutting guilds off is a great idea however when you struggle to take even 3 sectors from the get-go it is not possible unless they are a close neighbour, so even in that scenario your neighbour may not be a strong guild and you will be overwhelmed once you come of lock and find yourself boxed in again. As far as competing with closely ranked guilds this is two games in a row we found ourselves up against guilds in the top 5, they are the problem in the main. Not guilds ranked closely to us who once again find themselves in our position of being boxed in. I still believe if each guild was restricted as to how many sectors it can take this would resolve the issue to a large degree. It would also create a game whereby strategy becomes important not numbers. Guilds that meet saturation point and keep it for so many hours/days could be given bonuses as a reward which still allows others to compete. This would in itself make partnering to dominate inner sectors counterproductive causing the top guilds to fight each other not collaborate.
 

Xeon of Camelot

Major-General
if each guild was restricted as to how many sectors it can take

Yes, that is a way or implement a larger map.
It is worth noting that the next GbG update will likely restrict the number of guilds in Diamond League to 4 which will have the same effect as a larger map and prevent most guilds from being locked out or beached. There will likely still be some though.

Ideally, we need a map where the cost of obtaining and keeping the center sectors is high enough to stop any guild from completely dominating too fast, leaving some free outside sectors for the weaker guilds. Implementing more player strategy to winning or defending sectors will slow down the bad effect of locking the complete map in 20 minutes so nobody can play for the next 4 hours!
 
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