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GBG match ups are not random and they are ruining the game

For months now, our guild has been matched up with most of the same guilds in GBG. These are smaller, weaker guilds that can neither compete with us nor work with us effectively. We have to sit around for hours for any of them to take a sector of ours just so we can have something to take back later. There is no way these smaller guilds belong in the diamond league so I fail to understand why are the match ups the way they are. Inno seriously needs to reform GBG, there are way too many diamond league maps running than required and hence there are teams in there that really ought to be competing in Platinum.
 

klods hans

Monarch
The match making is random for guilds with the same LP. That's why you can end up with same guilds time after time. Randomness doesn't care if the results are more or less the same every time. If you make a "better" and more controlled match making, it will take away the randomness.
But yes, for sure, the match making needs to be improved somehow.
 
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For months now, our guild has been matched up with most of the same guilds in GBG. These are smaller, weaker guilds that can neither compete with us nor work with us effectively. We have to sit around for hours for any of them to take a sector of ours just so we can have something to take back later. There is no way these smaller guilds belong in the diamond league so I fail to understand why are the match ups the way they are. Inno seriously needs to reform GBG, there are way too many diamond league maps running than required and hence there are teams in there that really ought to be competing in Platinum.
If you seriously want to compete against other guilds - then LOSE a GbG round and take 5-8 spot instead of staying in 1-4. You have 1000LP, then you only compete against others with 1000LP - makes total sense. Lose 25 LP and compete with others that are very close to 1000.
That is your alternatives - refuse to do what you (your guild) can do to get new competition (i.e. lose a few LP) or keep playing the same group over and over again. You and all the others that keep whining about how the system does not work - but then start whining when you have to do something to fix it - and expect that only Inno should fix it. Take some of your own responsibility.
 

r21r

Major-General
If you seriously want to compete against other guilds - then LOSE a GbG round and take 5-8 spot instead of staying in 1-4. You have 1000LP, then you only compete against others with 1000LP - makes total sense. Lose 25 LP and compete with others that are very close to 1000.
That is your alternatives - refuse to do what you (your guild) can do to get new competition (i.e. lose a few LP) or keep playing the same group over and over again. You and all the others that keep whining about how the system does not work - but then start whining when you have to do something to fix it - and expect that only Inno should fix it. Take some of your own responsibility.
i think he said he has weaker guilds on his map, he is not trying to exploit anything :P

read again his post
 
i think he said he has weaker guilds on his map, he is not trying to exploit anything :P

read again his post
Yes, sorry, my apology. Just getting so sick and tired of all the posts and complaints about the matchmaking. Its been complained enough to make people vomit already. And I was not looking at any kind of exploit - rather a method that can create different matchups. (which has been shot down before because "why should we have to lose a round" - not a great solution I admit, but it is a workaround option).
And those guilds that are said should be in Platinum - well, if they were good enough to get into Diamond, why shouldn't they have the opportunity to play Diamond too. If they are that weak that they cannot complete, then they will lose LP until they drop back into Platinum.
Both my Cities compete in Diamond and some weeks we are dominant and some weeks we are crushed, but unless we are 1000LP, we still have some variety of competition. At 1000LP, it is basically just one or two different guilds each time and the rest are the same. Under 1000LP, usually but not always, have most different opponents.
 

r21r

Major-General
Yes, sorry, my apology. Just getting so sick and tired of all the posts and complaints about the matchmaking. Its been complained enough to make people vomit already. And I was not looking at any kind of exploit - rather a method that can create different matchups. (which has been shot down before because "why should we have to lose a round" - not a great solution I admit, but it is a workaround option).
yes no worries, forgive me for the exploits part.
And those guilds that are said should be in Platinum - well, if they were good enough to get into Diamond, why shouldn't they have the opportunity to play Diamond too. If they are that weak that they cannot complete, then they will lose LP until they drop back into Platinum.
Both my Cities compete in Diamond and some weeks we are dominant and some weeks we are crushed, but unless we are 1000LP, we still have some variety of competition. At 1000LP, it is basically just one or two different guilds each time and the rest are the same. Under 1000LP, usually but not always, have most different opponents.
well, if you consider that you rank up from cooper till diamond without actual enemies (not weak but completely inactive) it was obvious we will end up here.
if you have time, read the GBG feedback thread, i mentioned it a year ago in a comment "the mmr as is makes eveyone a winner!" so we ended up having all losers in diamond..

idk if they wanna look at it, but there is issue imo there
 
The match making is random for guilds with the same LP. That's why you can end up with same guilds time after time. Randomness doesn't care if the results are more or less the same every time. If you make a "better" and more controlled match making, it will take away the randomness.
But yes, for sure, the match making needs to be improved somehow.
Sadly it is not random. we have confirmation in our world that guilds with 1000 are being sorted by GUILD ID NUMBER which goes back to when they were created. it explains why we see the same 4-5 guilds without fail because we happen to have been created around the same time in 2014. And the only variety we see are picking up 2 or 3 guilds created after or before us, depending on who got -25, -75 etc to get bumped below 1000, still we see the same match-up from only about 10 guilds, just every other season if they take a trip below 1000.

Someone was able to predict all our matchups exactly for this season and prediction was correct by guild ID for all the diamond boards among guilds with 1000. There are 32 guilds with 1000, and 56 total in diamond, yet we are sorted among approx the same 10 guilds, over and over. I have racked my brain trying to decide if this is new or just enough guilds have all gotten to 1000 that now we notice it. Was it ever random? I thought it was too... but it isn't now. There were times we used to get matched with a bigger variety of guilds, including those who are far away from us in guild ID number, through the end of 2020. but in 2021 we have settled into this pattern with no variety.
 

r21r

Major-General
Someone was able to predict all our matchups exactly for this season and prediction was correct by guild ID for all the diamond boards among guilds with 1000. There are 32 guilds with 1000, and 56 total in diamond, yet we are sorted among approx the same 10 guilds, over and over. I have racked my brain trying to decide if this is new or just enough guilds have all gotten to 1000 that now we notice it. Was it ever random? I thought it was too... but it isn't now. There were times we used to get matched with a bigger variety of guilds, including those who are far away from us in guild ID number, through the end of 2020. but in 2021 we have settled into this pattern with no variety.
checked it on the world i am playing, the map i am in, is like this.
but the other one, hasn't the predictions i made (based on ID)
 

RegV

Corporal
The match making is random for guilds with the same LP.
Any DB programmers here? Are you thinking Undefined Order vs. Random Order might explain this? Random order should be reasonably random. Undefined order can be random, until it isn't, then it is again.
 

TheGreatFinger

Warrant Officer
There is no such thing as undefined order (unless we're talking quantum computers). It is sorted by something (ID is a reasonable assumption). Then inno either shuffles or not. Looks like they're not.
 

RegV

Corporal
There is no such thing as undefined order (unless we're talking quantum computers). It is sorted by something (ID is a reasonable assumption). Then inno either shuffles or not. Looks like they're not.
You aren't a DBA, are you? Undefined order is a very well defined term. One use of that term is when things are not sorted by something (or, to be more accurate, the programmer does not specify how to sort). The results come out in some order, sure. Deterministic? Sure? Repeatable? Get the same results next week as last week? Nope...that is what undefined order means. And it can change for unpredictable reasons. (Google "Oracle monday morning mayhem" for example).
 

HeII Boy

Private
Why not make matchmaking in Battlegrounds like Guild Expedition facing guilds from other servers? This would decrease the chance of meeting the same guilds every season. The way Battlegrounds is set up now isn't working and needs to change-making matches fairer. I know this creates more work for Inno trying to resolve the issue but something needs to change bringing the fun back.
 

PeePee Pleb

Lieutenant
For months now, our guild has been matched up with most of the same guilds in GBG. These are smaller, weaker guilds that can neither compete with us nor work with us effectively. We have to sit around for hours for any of them to take a sector of ours just so we can have something to take back later. There is no way these smaller guilds belong in the diamond league so I fail to understand why are the match ups the way they are. Inno seriously needs to reform GBG, there are way too many diamond league maps running than required and hence there are teams in there that really ought to be competing in Platinum.
You forgot to give us more info on which League are you talking about. Regarding Diamond league, it's just a normal thing, guilds push themselves too far thinking they can possibly swap with the tip guilds in Diamond league and stay there for quite some time.
And yes, small guilds cannot do much as Diamond league is league where guilds with lot of members rule
My small guild, consisting of 9-10 members, was able to do that for 3-4 seasons, but you just get tired of it and lose yourself, like we started just giving up a season once we reach 1000LP. You need to test which League is the best for your guild.
 

Hungry Hippy

Private
The match making is random for guilds with the same LP. That's why you can end up with same guilds time after time. Randomness doesn't care if the results are more or less the same every time. If you make a "better" and more controlled match making, it will take away the randomness.
But yes, for sure, the match making needs to be improved somehow.
There can be nothing random about the current pairing of guilds in GBG, we have been with the same 4-5 guilds for a couple months, and I am aware that there is another matchup between some different guilds on our same world
 

L0rien

Private
There are quite a range of guilds with LP 1000, there is no way the same matches would keep coming up if it was random.
The sorting is by LP first, then by guild ID.
This is why in EN2 Project Phoenix and Pʀᴏᴊᴇᴄᴛ Pʜᴏᴇɴɪx 2 which are both newer and on 1000 LP always get put together rather than sometimes getting split up and facing older guilds like rogue nation and we raid naked.
Project Phoenix and Pʀᴏᴊᴇᴄᴛ Pʜᴏᴇɴɪx 2 continually get put together, and not with any of the older guilds because they have ids of 22,017 and 22,202
We raid naked and Asthmatic Donkeys are continually together on IDs of 7,218 and 6768 respectively
 

klods hans

Monarch
There can be nothing random about the current pairing of guilds in GBG, we have been with the same 4-5 guilds for a couple months, and I am aware that there is another matchup between some different guilds on our same world
I thought it was random. Now I know, that most likely they have started to sort it by guild ID.
 

L0rien

Private
I thought it was random. Now I know, that most likely they have started to sort it by guild ID.
yes, we are 24,481 and paired with 22,020 22,202 22,073 and 21,017.......all on 1000LP - but we never meet 2 other guilds also on 1000LP who are always together in another group and on 7,218 and 6,967