Forge point packs

Discussion in 'Questions' started by Challin, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. Vesiger

    Vesiger Major-General

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    England
    I'm afraid there aren't any Guild Banks... (the 'fp bank' being referred to was the actual display bar).
    And this change was a deliberate policy move by Innogames to make it harder for players to hoard large numbers of FP, so I suspect it's unlikely to be reversed, alas.
     
  2. Wife of Vlad

    Wife of Vlad Warrant Officer

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Location:
    UK
    Only trouble is, today's "young" players do not compete on yesteryears playing field... for example, if they want a decent spot on a GB they need to compete using **today's** game play ... the fact that in times long gone there were less FPs around doesn't really help with that.

    Next time your central heating gives up the ghost you probably want it fixed rather than hear the service guy reminiscing about the good old days when we were all living in caves with an open fire in the middle :P
     
    Prinza the Hunter and akbhoy67 like this.
  3. Einrikr

    Einrikr Sergeant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    Wow! You believe that saved money can't be used, meaning that you never plan with money you save. You also never plan with money you don't have, meaning you don't take loans or use credit. You're all about living hand-to-mouth, aren't you? Worse yet, you can't possibly be very good, even at that. I'll have to assume that if you take a job, you never plan on returning to it the next day (which may never come). You never plan to look for a job (which may not be where you look). You never plan on paying tomorrow's rent (I can't imagine you have the money yet, and, besides, who's to say there will be a tomorrow, or that the building will still stand when it comes). Unless you have the food right in front of you, you have no plans for your next meal. After all, how can you plan to eat food that you don't have, or to find food that might not be there?

    If you've been playing this game as long as you claim, with as much progress as you claim, and you still don't know that strategy is about planning beyond the present, that allows me to make some useful inferences about the game:
    - In the early days, the game didn't reward strategic thinking.
    - On the higher levels, where you are now, it still doesn't reward strategic thinking.

    For those of us who thought that FoE is a strategy game, this is very enlightening.

    Forge points aren't "freebies". For something to be a "freebie", it must not only be free, but also have value (otherwise, the dirt under your shoes would be "freebies"). Forge points, however, have no value. Their only function is as game elements. The way they function in the game is one of many factors determining the value of the game as a whole. The game itself is also not a freebie, not even for those who play it for "free". InnoGames isn't a charitable organization; they get value from all of us. The more players there are, the easier it is to recruit even more players, and, the more players, the higher the value of in-game success, and thus of premium features, and, the more players, the greater the potential market for those features. There are no freebies here. All players are giving something in order to get... somethings that is, just barely, something. We're all "paying customers", with a right to be upset when the game looses value. When that happens, the strategies we've invested time (and, for many, money) in also looses value.

    You may be happy, thinking that you've found some nice people on the Internet, who keeps giving you "valuables" like FPs, free of charge. That's fine. Go back to marveling at the prettiness of roses, hearts, special buildings, and other sorts of "freebies" the nice people are giving you. While such naiveté on the Internet is slightly worrying, it is a valid approach to the game, and we might all enjoy it more, if we could be as childlike.

    However, it does mean that your perspective, and thus your rant, is completely irrelevant to those who approach the game as a strategy game.

    The fact is, a major strategy element has been gimped, in order to guide players into more predictable behavior. Exactly how they intend to monetize this increased predictability is unclear, but it's probably going to be bad news for us when we find out. If it's bad enough, it may even be bad news for InnoGames.
     
    Wife of Vlad and LAB21 like this.
  4. Andrew420

    Andrew420 Sergeant

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Location:
    Where you least expect me!
    I will say this one more time than I am done with this
    All they changed was the FP packs from Treasure Hunt (a possible 17 a day in total if you are lucky) and FPs from premium purchases
    Nothing else about FP packs has changed
    If such a small change can impact a players strategy that much I would say that player isn't taking full advantage of all that FoE has to offer
    Don't tell me its not fair to newer players because there wasn't even a Treasure Hunt when I started
    At least the current new player still has the chance to win some extra FPs
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
    Vesiger and akbhoy67 like this.
  5. Einrikr

    Einrikr Sergeant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    I'll say this only once, and then I expect you to be done with it: They also changed GE. FPs to bar is clearly set down as the new standard.

    Then I'll say this, and expect you, and all the other senile players, to be done with it: Newer players are new players in the game as it is today, not as it was back in the olden days. You know, your ol'e gammy never had no use for no playing around on the innernetty, 'cause she had her checkers board, and that checkers board surely had no FP packages. Yet, funnily, you're playing on the Internet, aren't you? What would your ol'e gammy say to that? Is her checkers board not good enough for you?

    As for how much a change can impact a players strategy, that's pretty much irrelevant. What's relevant is in what direction the change moves the game. Is it towards a widening of strategic choices, or towards a narrowing? If it's the latter, then it's the wrong direction for a strategy game. This particular reduction may not be very big, but here's something that may have passed you, and others, by: FoE has very few strategy elements, and the ones it does have are limited, narrow, and simplistic. It can ill afford to loose anything on that front. The fact that it was even worse before, just proves how vitally necessary change in the right direction has been, and still is, for the survival of the game.

    On the positive side, the totality of changes actually seem to be toward more FPs. On the negative side, it's also toward fewer options on how to use them. The trend is more glitter and less strategy, more instant gratification and less delayed gratification. People primed for instant gratification are more easily manipulated, which will probably turn out to be the explanation for the changes. Regardless, instant gratification cannot be the core concept of a strategy game.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
    Prinza the Hunter likes this.
  6. LAB21

    LAB21 Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2015
    17x7=119
    119x4=476
    GE+TH = a few hundred fp every month into the inventory to be used whenever & however you want (even on the days you don't play or not get any packs) NO LONGER.
    The previous way didn't hurt anyone.
    The new way does.

    The main goal of games like foe is to make MONEY , If a person is spending REAL MONEY and NOW having potentially MORE fps going into the bar - they will progress faster so they will reach the end faster and be more likely to stop playing.
    Isn't it more advantageous to keep a person who spends real money playing longer?
     
  7. Einrikr

    Einrikr Sergeant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    They just move the end, as soon as enough people close in on it. Meanwhile, if you're constantly forced to progress faster than you otherwise would, you'll be constantly unprepared. That makes you vulnerable to the temptation to smooth your path with premium features. Some of those features will, ironically, have shorter lived usefulness than ever before. If you spend several months in an age, you'll get some mileage out of premium buildings; if you spend a week in an age, desperately trying to balance your city, before stumbling headlong into the next age, you'll get no mileage at all.
     
  8. -=Krabis=-

    -=Krabis=- Master Corporal

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, it is all about the money, but the concept is much simpler.
    When you really need FPs you used to open up inventory or buy for coins. Now if there is a FP shortage you will more likely open you wallet, than your inventory, since FPs don`t get saved up for latter use.
    Here is a question: when was the last time you AIMED for FP packs in events (for apples, for soccer cups etc) ? Sorry for sarcasm: hey be happy now FP packs are premium stuff!
    Another angle of the problem: what to do if you are newbie with NO GBs? You had 10h to get the goods needed and suddenly the bar is full from treasure hunt, oh, the happy day of being scr....
     
    LAB21 likes this.
  9. citanicus

    citanicus Corporal

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    lol... Did anyone ever tell you you're a smart bugger, Einrikr ??

    I'm impressed by and enjoy reading every one of your posts...
     
  10. Einrikr

    Einrikr Sergeant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    I've been known to aim for FP packs. I won't buy them, though. First of all, that will feel much to much like cheating; this is perhaps the single most fundamental resource in the game. Secondly, have been grossly over-priced, and I doubt they've made it rarer in order to cut prices. Thirdly, once you start buying something this fundamental, you're on a slippery slope to giving up all pretense to playing strategically. I'll quit playing, before I do that. At least, I hope I will...

    I fear that they're being much more subtle than simply creating an in-game market for themselves (though, no doubt, they'll take full advantage of that aspect, also). For some reason, their consumer behaviorists (which I suspect greatly outnumber the rest of their staff; certainly, they have the programmers and technical staff outnumbered) have concluded that this is a way to dislodge mental barriers against spending. That preventing us from saving, delaying, and planning may cause more impulsive behavior isn't a stretch. That forcing us to rapidly spend one "rare resource" might lower our barriers on another, even rarer and more coveted resource, namely our credit card details, also isn't much of a stretch.

    That's as far as I can speculate; this is an actual profession, full of clever psychologists and psychiatrists who decided that dangerously misguiding self help programs, motivational speaking schemes, and/or slowly draining peoples wallets through drawn out psychoanalysis, was either not morally despicable enough, or not lucrative enough, for them.
     
    Prinza the Hunter likes this.
  11. Einrikr

    Einrikr Sergeant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    All the time, and often in much less flattering terms, I'm afraid. Still, I always assume the best about people, and so put it all down to genuine appreciation! In some cases it may even not be completely delusional of me...
     
  12. Challin

    Challin Private

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Blimey! Didn't mean to start a feud.
    As has been commented, I just want to be able to do what I want, when I want with my resources.
    Does anybody deliberately use all their savings before their next payday?
    Just give us a method of storing them for later use.
    Then we can decide which method we prefer and use that method without having to 'impulse spend'.
     
    LAB21 likes this.
  13. Challin

    Challin Private

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Case in point....
    Just finished 3rd ge
    Have won 40 fp's.
    Would like to use them later but I have to use them now.
    No more hourly pc's until I clear down to 9 or less
    How wrong is that??!!
     
    Prinza the Hunter likes this.
  14. -=Krabis=-

    -=Krabis=- Master Corporal

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    As far as i know this rarely is the case of browser games, such madmen are employed by much better paying PC/Console franchises. In smaller games, usually they (Dev's) pull out colored graphs of different shapes and sizes on multiple criteria. Now there is no super-natural algorithm that pulls logical conclusion on those, and most popular choice is staring at the numbers for 1/2 a day, sometimes team does have some brilliant mind of figuring out how are the values of random graphs connected. The buggering of the game is simple - ''hey look, we have a spike here, let`s add unfair hardcore stuff to balance it, and see what happens.'' If something goes really bad, they apologize (in words only) and make the game more playable again.
    Don`t ever expect miracles to happen in this game, if FP packs are gone, they are gone for good. It has been a long time since i had a positive surprise from Inno :(
     
    Vesiger likes this.
  15. Einrikr

    Einrikr Sergeant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    OK. The thing is, though, that we know that they have employees. Those employees are definitely not game developers. If they're not consumer behaviorists, either, then what's left? I'm afraid to speculate... *shudder*
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
    -=Krabis=- likes this.
  16. akbhoy67

    akbhoy67 Tsar

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Speyside - The Whisky Capital of the World
    It's hard for some folks to understand this mate :mad:

    Treasure Hunt fp packs --> fps onto the fp bar seems to mean a complete change in strategy for some folks haha and I bet loads of the complainers are using the app version with no Treasure Hunt but just fancied a good moan :P
     
  17. shad0wlands

    shad0wlands Private

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I think (or certainly hope!) they will be rather more careful about removing FP packs as rewards for GB contributions (and putting the FPs on the bar instead), because unlike TH and GEs, the reward can come about at an unexpected time due to the actions of someone else (leveling the GB). So you could log out expecting you can leave the game for several hours while your bar slowly fills up, then moments later someone levels up a GB you contributed to and suddenly your bar is already full. Unless you have the app with notifications on alerting you to this (and are in a position to respond), you'll effectively lose several FPs because your bar has stopped accumulating prematurely - as a side-effect of someone else's action, not your own. That seems grossly unfair.
     
    Prinza the Hunter likes this.
  18. TheKingOfKool

    TheKingOfKool Warrant Officer

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    If FP's from GB's start going to the "Bar" instead of back into inventory where most of them are coming from, they will have irrevocably destroyed the game! I can't see anybody in the FOE regime doing such a thing; it just wouldn't make any sense.
     
  19. vikingraider1

    vikingraider1 Private

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Reading all the previous posts though, this is the direction I fear it's heading.:(
     
  20. Michael K.

    Michael K. Brigadier-General

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Perhaps the funniest post yet.
    'It just wouldn't make any sense.'
    . . . mk
     

Top