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FOE VALUE FOR MONEY????

DeletedUser110615

Yes, gold was valuable (and is), due to its rarity. However, it was rare mainly because it was needed as a basis for the monetary system. Today it's rare mainly because it's still used as a safe investment. The reason why gold achieved this position, was probably that it was the first metal we had access to and could shape; it's found in it's pure form, rather than as ore, and it's soft enough to be hammered without significant heating. The near mystical property of being stainless also helped, of course. If the monetary system had vanished, it would've simply been one of the least useful metals around; try to make a sword or a plow from it...

Gold is actually useful in many ways nowadays. Electronics, glassmaking, medicine to name a few. It is usually avoided because of it's high price; in most cases there are cheaper substitutes available. Ignoring it's monetary value ... it would probably still be among the more valuable metals.

Back to topic ... FoE is definitely worth it's price to me. As mentioned many times it's found a good balance between paying/playing for free and the game is completely free to play if you have the patience. If you don't ... either pay up or don't play. It's as simple as that. They have to make money somehow ...

I don't feel the game was misrepresented to me in any way when I started playing. Also, in the year I've been around they've made many improvements, so I don't see how they're not improving it. Sure, it could use more polish (as could literally any game), but it's free ... Those that decide to pay for it must believe it's worth it.
 

DeletedUser110131

Gold is actually useful in many ways nowadays.
It's usefulness has increased a lot, especially due to its electrical characteristics. It has also turned out to be useful against autoimmune diseases, as it can neutralize elements of the immune system. All that happened long after the gold standard was abolished, though. Back then, it was pretty useless.

They have to make money somehow
Absolutely, and I'm glad they are.

I don't feel the game was misrepresented to me in any way when I started playing
The discussion of misrepresenting was a sidetrack; OP never claimed that they did. The do get fairly sneaky about ways to tempt people into buying diamonds, though. The problem with the freemium business model, is that it unavoidably hits the most susceptible disproportionately hard. People with certain issues can actually end up ruining themselves. Another group simply ends up feeling that they payed a lot, and got little. A common thing in all trade, and no indication of misrepresenting, cheating, fraud, or any such thing. However, with professional customer profilers against them, the power balance between businesses and customers is getting a bit unfair, especially for some. Remember, if one has this vulnerability, Inno isn't the only business that will exploit it. Being turned into the "ideal consumer" can be an expensive nightmare. It's an interesting ethical issue, and a legitimate point to make.

Also, in the year I've been around they've made many improvements, so I don't see how they're not improving it. Sure, it could use more polish (as could literally any game)
No more polish. There's plenty of polish. Most of the "improvements" you've seen have been nothing more than that. Surprisingly, not quite all, though. What the game needs is improved functionality, new ideas, fixing bugs, and some serious upgrading of the fundamentals of some distinctly unsophisticated solutions.

but it's free
Well, as I've argued, not really. It doesn't cost money, but you're still compensating Inno for what you get in return. It's a happy deal for most, though.

Those that decide to pay for it must believe it's worth it.
Apparently, some stop believing it, but only after having payed...
 

DeletedUser110377

Shuffle is a con!
Honestly I brought this up last Xmas and it's still here - WHY WHY WHY would you want to reward players who are trying their best to win a decent prize in the Winter Event by RESHUFFLING the gifts?? WHY? Is the idea that there is a booby prize? i.e. thanks for solving all the quests and collecting the stars but now you efforts are screwed because I am going to reshuffle the gifts just when you think you are getting close NOT ONCE - NOT TWICE but THREE TIMES!!! What is the point of doing these quests of not for the rewards? Effort should be rewarded not punished. Game designers must be sitting back pi$$ing themselves laughing watching players collect 3 days of stars just to lose the whole lot in 2 minutes.
 

DeletedUser110131

Shuffle is a con!
The Shuffle is a good reward, if you've already found the main prize; it gives you a shot at one more. For non-premium players, that won't happen very often. However, if you blow enough of your hard earned cash to buy diamonds, to buy stars, to open "gifts", it will happen. Spend a lot of money, and it will happen a lot. To keep people spending cash/diamonds/stars, they need to have that reshuffle dangling; a chance to get another shot, without having to clear the entire board.

Non-premium players are valuable; it's why Inno wants them. However, they're not as valuable as premium players. Thus, when interests clash, the interests of non-premium players get squished...

To premium players, the shuffle is a "con", because it keeps them buying, but hardly ever shows up. That's also the actual intention behind the Shuffle. It's one of the multitude of clever little incentives to encourage spending. On its own, each is fairly ineffectual, but, in aggregate, they achieve their purpose on many. When that's on people who are receptive because they can afford to be, there's no problem.
 

DeletedUser110179

Shuffle is a con!
Game designers must be sitting back pi$$ing themselves laughing watching players collect 3 days of stars just to lose the whole lot in 2 minutes.
Foolishness is no laughing matter ...

Planning mitigates against instant gratification. It would be wise to have at least 100 stars (preferably 200 or more) before you reach for the wrapping paper. If you used no diamonds to acquire stars then it's best to collect stars for 2 weeks or more before you temp fate. Everyone will have collected some diamonds from GE.

Most of the 9 pieces from the Winter Village set come up twice during the event ... guaranteeing that everyone has at least one shot at each piece in the second half of the event.



The Shuffle is a good reward, if you've already found the main prize; it gives you a shot at one more.
What is the cost of winning a further DS ... after having won it already.

Clearly, it's not quite double because you must have opened at least one present to get the first DS (worst case scenario).
You could also win the DS on the "last but one" present (best case scenario) ... where the re-shuffle pays for itself (giving back 10 stars)
It would seem that if you were forced to acquire 10 or 100 DS ... the cost would even out between 100 and 200% ... ie 150%.

Playing opportunistically, you could acquire a further DS at less than 150% depending on the outcome of your previous win (and so on).
 
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DeletedUser110179

None of which is counter to what I've said. If you simply print more money, the value falls, because the true values (goods, merchandise, commodities, labor, patents, etc.) that the money represents, haven't increased similarly.
Even gold can cause inflation ... as in the Spainish inflation of the 17th Century ...
where gold and silver flooded into Spain from the conquered Incas in South America.

It's a case of "a sharply increasing amount of money (in the form of silver and gold)
chasing a relatively fixed output of goods and services, thus bidding up the prices".

Gold was like paper money ... having limited practical value ... but able to buy any goods and services.
 

Agent327

Overlord
If you simply print more money, the value falls, because the true values (goods, merchandise, commodities, labor, patents, etc.) that the money represents, haven't increased similarly.

Bullcrap!

Money is printed all the time. Value only drops whem you bring extra money into circulation.
 

DeletedUser108961

this game cost 1 million to make you made 100 million
How do you know those numbers? Do you have a link to an official source?

Not saying I don't agree with your statements about the game, nor saying I agree. Every company's purpose is profit, although every company's mission should be to satisfy it's costumers expectations. This is a very grey area and I'm excluding myself to discuss it. What caught my eye was those extraordinary numbers. Do you have any source?
 

DeletedUser110179

How do you know those numbers? Do you have a link to an official source?
Inno themselves give the 100 million Euro Revenue in 2015 figure ... but they don't mention anything about percentage profit, nett profit or the cost of development of FoE (even the revenue figure includes all their gaming products).
 
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DeletedUser96901

i wish i could get 100 million profit for investing 1 million (that are 10000%)

that is even better than bitcoins (less than 2000% profit in the last 12 month)
 

DeletedUser110131

Money is printed all the time. Value only drops whem you bring extra money into circulation.
Forgive me for being imprecise: If you simply print more money when you need it, and then actually use it as money, thus putting it into circulation, then the value of the money will decrease, unless production of real values, that is the goods and services that money is traded for, have increased similarly.

If, on the other hand, you print the money in order to use it for something entirely different, such as kindling for your fireplace, then it will have no effect on the value of money.

I just assumed that you would realize that this was implicit. Obviously, my thoughts must've been on something else. My bad.
 

DeletedUser110179

If you simply print more money, the value falls, because the true values (goods, merchandise, commodities, labor, patents, etc.) that the money represents, haven't increased similarly.
Well, it would seem that private banks can create money without even printing it ... electronic money ... through deposit money creation (29:43)
" 90% of our money is a stream of 1's and 0's on a computer somewhere ... " .

I guess empires created money in a similar way, by simply having created the artificial grouping in the first place ... hence the collapse of empires into smaller (more natural) units and countries that we have today.
China lived in homogeneous poverty or equality until the government gave preferential rights to certain towns and areas ... in a bid for material prosperity. They engineered an economic miracle ... but you can't always control the genie when it's out of the bottle.

Inequality generates wealth ... people want more, not because they need more but because other people have more ... it's a status thing.
In FoE, the relative inequality drives the poorer, less developed players to bridge the economic divide.
Maybe nobody wins but everybody strives for more until inequality has been eradicated and balance restored.

 
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DeletedUser110131

@Bridgeman55
Yes, unfortunately, financial institutions have a tendency to create imaginary money (broad money), in the forms of loans, transfer delays, and a lot of other clever tricks. Let them off the regulatory hooks, and they'll go nuts with it. The more imaginary money there is, the more severe the consequences when the illusion breaks. Of course, not for the banks, nor for the very wealthy. They always find a way to stick others with the bill.

Envy is a great motivator. No doubt about it. The things that motivate our species can be quite depressing. On the other hand, the martket logic brings out the worst in us; I hope we're slightly better than we seem.

Darn, I guess I'm an idealist :(
 

DeletedUser109832

I also think Inno are really taking the P*** with the 2017 Winter Event too.
In order to get the previous day's special prize so far, the cost has been 1500 diamonds, with an increase to 1700 where it was a building from the 9 set.

That's equivalent to:
1500 diamonds = £17.64, or 19.87eu, or $23.60
1700 diamonds = £19.99, or 22.52eu, or $26.74

Yesterdays building has jumped to 2500 diamonds, which is:
£29.40, or 33.12eu, or $39.32

(assuming you take the most popular diamond purchase for any of the above values).

I know they need to make money, but that's just taking advantage of people.
 

DeletedUser110131

If you're going to use Diamonds, don't buy the buildings directly. If you buy stars, you can open all 18 slots at the cost of 1260 diamonds. True, you may hit a "Shuffle", and have to start over, but, then again, you may hit a "Show Two", and improve your chances. Exactly how that works out with regard to probability is a bit more math than I'm going to do. However, buying stars is cheaper, and you'll also get lower prizes, as a bonus.

This is a good demonstration of how they obfuscate the costs: Stars cost Diamonds, which cost money. However, how many Diamonds, and how much money, depends on which purchase option you use. In addition, Stars and Diamonds are worthless, outside the game, so you feel as you may as well spend them. Removing the actual expense as far as possible from the actual spending, has an effect.

"Freemium" is definitely a very clever scheme...

that's just taking advantage of people
I'm afraid a lot of people end up feeling that they've been taken advantage of, yes. Of course, they also feel that they're too invested (literally) in the game to quit. Obviously, Inno believes that the balance ends up in their favor. The question is if it's sustainable. For us who like the game, let's hope that it is.
 

DeletedUser110179

"Freemium" is definitely a very clever scheme....
Even "paid for" games have come under the spotlight with the introduction of Lootboxes.



I'm afraid a lot of people end up feeling that they've been taken advantage of, yes.
Of course, they also feel that they're too invested (literally) in the game to quit.
That's life ... it pushes you over the edge and forces you to go forward.

Even players who have never spent cash on FoE may still feel "locked-in" by virtue of the sheer mountain of time spent on the game ...
and all the RL sacrifices this may have entailed (sometimes, even marriage).

Life is there to participate (You can watch movies but games pull you in).
 
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dimondus

Captain
This thread got heavy quickly!

For me - 5 years entertainment - total cost £0 - I call that a bargain.
How many trolls are needed to start "heavy" conversation? The answer is ONE!
I must confess I've spent like 10 or 15 euros in 2,5 years mostly to say thanks for good spent time.
Its a cost of a quarter of the AAA single player game that I would probably complete in 10-20 hours, so stop whining people!
 

DeletedUser653

.........
They were trying to print money faster than people could keep up, to finance the government, with subsequent loss of faith in the currency, which exasperated the problem. You got your pay, often in a brand new, and much higher denomination than ever before, and before you reached the shop with your newly printed 100 trillion note, you'd need a wheelbarrow of it. Slightly exaggerated, but not by much, and the 100 trillion note was real. That's 100,000,000,000,000. It's a wonder they could fit the number on the bill...

actually a trillion note is small compared to the post-war Hungarian pengő bills. A 100 quintillion (1x10^20, a 1 followed by 20 zeroes) pengő bill was issued and while it was printed the 1 sextillion (1x10^21), pengő bill was not issued (all in long form). Thats was a 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 pengo note you could have got in your paycheck, think of the problems of getting change from the taxi driver!!
 
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