Fights

[DeletedUser]

I was checking the rankings and noticed that very few players above my point rankings have more fights than me.
Some of them even have 15-20 fights, in the range of 100-200 rank.

So, it made me wonder: when it comes to growing and becoming stronger, do the fights really play any role besides fun?
Now, first answer you will have is: they allow you do plunder. True, but plundering is not always guaranteed and so is what you plunder. And for being able to plunder, one needs to spend space, resources and population to build military.

So, the question i am raising to debate is:

Is fighting highly undervalued in the game balance?

 

[DeletedUser]

I would be OK if fighting is underpowered. I used to play Evony, it was fun, but a few people with more time than you and and understanding of the combat mechanics would make the game ridiculously unbalanced. From what I've gathered, FoE is supposed to be much more laid back. Getting attacked while you're away won't devastate your game. I like that.

 

[DeletedUser]

Fighting isn't undervalued. If you get medals you get to trade them for free expansions, letting you build more, giving you more game points.

 

[DeletedUser]

I wouldn't say it's undervalued.

If people use a lot of diamonds you can get a lot of points from diamond only buildings and the larger amount of resources they produce but fighting gives a decent amount of points also once they bring back the full neighborhoods.

I am ranked 2 in Arvahall and it's primary from the fights I do, I have 4,835 fights while the next person with the highest fights has 3,223, and I have never purchased diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser]

From what I've gathered, FoE is supposed to be much more laid back. Getting attacked while you're away won't devastate your game. I like that.

It's a beta version, so a lot will be changing in time, but i'm trying to get a picture of the longevity of such game.
Unlike other games where the possibilities are much more, this one is for now limited.
There is a limit to how many different building you can build. There is a limit to how many ages there are, there is a limit to how far can you upgrade your houses or military. There is a limit to map exploring.

In short, without the player interaction appeal (which the current fighting system doesn't help to promote), this "fake" multiplayer game has a short life span. Or as you say, it will prove to be for the type of players who just log in every now and then, grow and expand their empire etc.
But such players (laid back) are not the best customers for online games. Good customers spend and their money is what makes the game grow, hire cool designers that create new cool things, pay for faster servers, less bugs, etc.etc.
And good customers are the ones who use their money to stay ahead of competition, hence why the addicted players you mentioned in Evony, with a lot of time drive the rich to spend more so they can catch up.

Of course, this is a beta so people will give it a try but if as you say, the fighting remains undervalued it will soon make people leave.
Let's not forget that online strategy games are very much depended on multiplaying. Otherwise, it's no different from civilization which one can play alone and without need of internet.

 

[DeletedUser2974]

Hi Klevito,

I understand that at the moment the longevity of the game doesn't seem very long. However, if you think about it, it still would take you between 2 and 4 months to complete all of the ages that are currently available. Sure, some people have already done that and are waiting for more ages to come out, however, those people are dedicated, and they are stocking up for when those new ages come out. That's something that you yourself can do if you reach the end of the Late Middle Ages.

However, as you have said yourself, this is a beta version of this game. meaning it is playable to a point, but is not finished. I'm sure as the developers come our with new ages and new additions to game play, we will see a game that takes much longer than a few months, and will instead take a year or two.

As for the multiplayer part of this game, it is there. It is very different than other games have been in the past, and I believe that's why it's appealing to some people. Instead of games like Evony and Tribal Wars where if you get attacked and lose you lose a city or a massive amount of units that takes a few days, and sometimes weeks, to get back, this game is for those who wish to actually excel at the game without the fear of being destroyed by someone who has 20 hours a day to play the game. I see this game as a multiplayer game because of it's community. You have a neighborhood that you can either help or attack, and a guild that you can trade with, talk to on forums, and support. I believe this still makes this game Multiplayer.

As for fighting, I believe it will become more advanced as the developers see fit, though I don't believe it will ever reach the point that people lose a ton of things by being attacked. If you are looking for a game like that then Evony or Tribal Wars might be the place for you. Those are heavily military multiplayer based.

Hope this helped some!

 

[DeletedUser]

ninga78234 is right on the mark. Days or weeks isn't even enough time in Evony*, in some cases, if you lose a particularly good hero or city and don't want to be spending a ton of money to replace it.

Klevito, there is still player interaction in this game, as I see it (granted it's my first day, but I have been perusing both it and the forums), it's just a different sort of interaction. There is some PvP, and it's apparently to be expanded upon from what I've read, which is good, I like that. I agree that an utter lack of that would be strange and a turn-off for a multiplayer game. However, as I understand it the PvP is somewhat elective. But more than that, multiplayer doesn't need to be about only PvP and fighting each other for E-peen. There's the numbers, people can compare and see how they stack up against each other. Sure, there's a limited number of buildings to research and build, but what about optimization? I have a more than rudimentary understanding of combinatorics and I don't even want to think about the multitude of potential city arrangements to try and maximize my city's output while juggling varying building sizes and output capacity. Does reshuffling your city arrangement to fit in X building really get a net profit, or will you have to sacrifice too much?

In fact, I think that FoE being different from Evony in this regard will contribute to the game's longevity. In the latter, the advantage of time and money leads to the inevitable result of a dead server because the high-caliber players have been too successful in conquering their neighbors. Once the server is dead, are the money-spenders going to hang around and keep spending? This end can be delayed, but ultimately I think it's a model that cannot help but implode upon itself. The laid-back players might spend less, but they have something else that big-spenders often lack: patience. If there are valuable benefits to buying in that (1) cannot be undone by other players and (2) cannot be obtained otherwise except possibly with an extremely long delay, then I think that FoE will prove successful in marketing itself to these folks.

So that's my 2 cents.

*I use Evony as the poster-child because that is the one with which I am familiar, but I know there are others like it.

 

[DeletedUser]

...But such players (laid back) are not the best customers for online games. Good customers spend and their money is what makes the game grow, hire cool designers that create new cool things, pay for faster servers, less bugs, etc.etc.
And good customers are the ones who use their money to stay ahead of competition, hence why the addicted players you mentioned in Evony, with a lot of time drive the rich to spend more so they can catch up.....

InnoGames have a number of online games. I'm sure they have one, Grepolis for instance, that have less laid back players.
You may consider this a niche market, but it seems to be one that is currently untapped, and therefore ripe for exploitation and has potential to earn money from. There are a number of ways to earn money; You can try to get the players you call 'Good customers' which from your description means you would be competing with almost every other game in the market; or alternatively you can search for a 'fresh' market and have the field to yourself.

Your economic theories may vary. :p

 

[DeletedUser]

Great thread folks. I love the way this game plays. I cannot afford to supplement games with cash so for me FOE is unsurpassed. That's all i need to say.

 

[DeletedUser2974]

To add on to what everyone has said already, I think another thing this game has going for it is the battle sequence. Instead of battles being automatic and depending on what buffs, units, heroes, etc... You have, it's based on strategy, placement, and movement of your units. Instead of having a huge army of million of soldiers against a small opponent, people playing this game are limited to 8 units of their choice...

I think this is definitely something people are interested in. It's much more balanced for every type of player (Those who play constantly and those who can only check the game every 8 hours or so).

I believe this game will strive, as it has already, for a very long time.

 

[DeletedUser]

great posts everyone.
I enjoy a good discussion.

 

[DeletedUser2974]

great posts everyone.
I enjoy a good discussion.

I do as well. I hope this shed some light on some questions or thoughts you had. It was a very good discussion that yo ustarted and I'm sure those who read through have learned some things.

Thanks for posting this!

 

[DeletedUser]

It's a beta version, so a lot will be changing in time, but i'm trying to get a picture of the longevity of such game.
Unlike other games where the possibilities are much more, this one is for now limited.
There is a limit to how many different building you can build. There is a limit to how many ages there are, there is a limit to how far can you upgrade your houses or military. There is a limit to map exploring.
...

I totally agree with you on this and from talking with other players from my guild - this question of what to do next and seeing no future, only roadblocks is keeping people more invested in a game (diamonds included). As most players in my En1 guild are in LMA so will finish tech tree soon, will have all best buildings and finished conquering provinces already - there is nothing that actually keeps them in game.

Some might still want to compete for medals but if there is very fierce competition (when merging occurs) imagine how many months it will take to gather necessary medals while doing nothing more. That is rewards for such huge, hard and long tasks are very small and doesnt offer adequate satisfaction ( for example getting 1000 medals will take months and all we get is one expansion which is 1/50+ of what i already have, doesnt play major role, but is just nice addition).

Right now only thing that has no limit is ability to attack your neighbors daily. But lets be honst its not something that will keep most players who reached their limits.

New age might come in a month or a few but in essence it wont change much. What is needed is some new 'space' where people can interact and compete and woudnt be static. It can be in building or fighting sectors or both, could include guilds or not. One good example such space is on another Inno game ''The west' where they have forts which can be taken by any town at any time, building and holding them gives some bonuses. Such 'space' really increases games longetivity and playability.

 

[DeletedUser]

New age might come in a month or a few but in essence it wont change much. What is needed is some new 'space' where people can interact and compete and woudnt be static it can be in building or fighting sectors or both, could include guilds or not. One good example such space is on another Inno game ''The west' where they have forts which can be taken by any town at any time, building and holding them gives some bonuses. Such 'space' really increases games longetivity and playability.

I think that's a good idea. And contrary to what my previous comments might suggest, I'd like to see something like this. Beefing up the PvP combat while keeping it somewhat elective would be a good goal, in my opinion. And I agree that the number of medals required for expansions later on seems quite high. Though maybe that's by design to play a game of attrition against the casual players. "Want expansions? Be very, very patient or buy them."