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Fair trade concerns

DeletedUser110751

Hi everyone. First time using this forum but def not new to forums in general.

Im in a few different worlds here and I play another game as well. Sometimes(most time) its hard to keep track of everything going on. One common problem I have is using GOODS I need for things coming up. Research and buying sectors. How many times have each of us spent goods we needed to unlock a research? We've all done it.

Just recently I came up with a creative solution. Example: assume Im in the late middle ages and I need 150 brass soon. I put a trade up offering 150 brass in exchange for 300 Biolight, a good from the oceanic future. Why? It reserves my brass so I cant spend it negotiating guild expeditions or putting other trades up. Well. I seem to have upset some guild leaders, one of which booted me without so much as a "AND DONT COME BACK YOU DIRT BAG!" Thats right. Not a word. Dont get me wrong, I dont care. I joined another guild with in an hour and they seem pretty chill.

My question is this.

Whats the deal? This isnt the first time Ive seen someone get huffy and whine about fair trades. Now I honestly tried to empathize. I tried to let "unfair trades" bother me. I tried to imagine why this chap would get so chapped about what should have clearly been an OUTRAGEOUS trade. A farce. One not to be taken seriously. But I just cant. You know why? If you dont like the trade, dont take it. Its honestly that simple. From what I can see there is no limit to how many trades we have up so im not taking up space. I didnt put it a guild trade so it doesnt make the guild look bad as one guy moaned.

So why do people get upset about unfair trades. I routinely offer 10 of something in exchange for 11. Its called a small profit. Ever hear of Supply and demand? If you dont need the trade, scroll past it.

Having said that, a way to reserve goods would be a handy feature. Theres certainly be less knickers in a bunch! Have fun peeps, its just a game. I promise.
 

lady-lexis

I've found it's a lot to do with circumstances. Some people find themselves in a strict guild early into their game and have the idea of 'fair trades' hammered into them despite the fact that the concept doesn't really exist in the game. It's just a player-designed concept that developed early and sort of took hold. I've said it before and I'll say it again, personally I feel that the only fair trade is one that both buyer and seller are happy with.

In fairness, you have to take into account that a lot of these 'fair trade rules' come from a philanthropic place and are supposedly designed to protect the inexperienced player from parting with their potentially more 'expensive' (in terms of production cost) goods for those of 'less' value; to stop people taking advantage.That being said, if a guild has trade rules, that's the founders prerogative; you can either comply or find somewhere else. It's their jurisdiction. Plenty of other fish in the sea!

Regardless, as you say, I've yet to meet someone who won't quite willingly pay over the odds for something they really need. Just find a more chilled out guild and leave the fair traders to their business. Most (not all!) players them grow out of it eventually and become a little more realistic when they have some experience under their belt.
 

DeletedUser110195

For one thing, people in fair-trade guilds tend to do sweeps of trades guildies put up, regardless of what's asked if they have it. Had someone in oceanic future had that 300 goods and done that trade, they'd have been screwed quite badly. For another, if YOU need something, so badly you're willing to take a loss then YOU post the trade that's unfair to you. Unfair trades are a cheap tactic to gain more than you deserve. My goods take as much time as yours to produce, yours are not worth more than mine at the same age or lower.

Further, we have that drilled in? We're too stupid to think for ourselves and find that fair trade policy is a good idea? Get the hell out of here with that bullcrap.
 

DeletedUser110751

Actually August, Id have to completely agree with her, just not in your words.

If someone from oceanic era had taken my trade then maybe he or she should be more careful?
As for cheap tactics, maybe we should point our finger at the game designers for allowing unfair trades and looting and cross era fighting. Its a game. Calm down.

But Im not talking about unfair trades, not when you think about it. Know what I call a trade up where Im offering 100 goods from the late middle ages in exchange for 200 goods from the oceanic era? A SURE BET THAT NO ONE IS GOING TO TAKE IT. I call it a safety deposit box. ;P

Anyway, If I have to leave every guild im in I will because honestly I just dont care if Im in a guild. I participate in the expeditions but thats about it and you can play the game without. Maybe Ill start my own guilds called the "unfair traders!" Any fair trades up and Ill boot you.
 

lady-lexis

Further, we have that drilled in?
Well, I know I did in the early stages of the game. Even when I was promoted to leader of a fair trade guild early on, I checked the guild market and sent warnings to those not complying with the trade rules. It wasn't until I was actually relatively quite advanced in the game that I decided not to take those so-called rules so seriously; because they are not 'rules', except within the jurisdiction of certain guilds, as is their privilege. I think a lot of people would have the same story as me.
We're too stupid to think for ourselves and find that fair trade policy is a good idea? Get the hell out of here with that bullcrap.
I wasn't suggesting that in the slightest, might wanna back off a bit and mind the tone. Fair traders are fine by me and I understand it comes from a altruistic place but whether or not it is a completely PRACTICAL idea in the game as it stands is another matter.
 

Vesiger

Monarch
Just recently I came up with a creative solution. Example: assume Im in the late middle ages and I need 150 brass soon. I put a trade up offering 150 brass in exchange for 300 Biolight, a good from the oceanic future. Why? It reserves my brass so I cant spend it negotiating guild expeditions or putting other trades up.
In my guild we routinely do this - we call it 'banking'. (I can see it potentially causing problems now that our highest players are actually approaching a level where such goods might be available, but back when we started it was a question of picking goods that were so far out of reach that none of us would ever take such a trade by mistake!)

We have a predefined product that is only ever used for 'banking', and anyone who sees one of these ridiculously unfair trades involving those goods knows exactly what is going on. And since it's something we never normally trade in, it hasn't so far caused any issues.

I didnt put it a guild trade so it doesnt make the guild look bad as one guy moaned.
We always put them as guild-only trades in order to hide them from outsiders who don't understand what's going on.
 

DeletedUser110751

Veslger, I think its great that someone can relate to my strategy. The leader of las vegas strippers booted me because he was convinced that I was secretly hoping someone would take my trades by mistake. Yeah. Brass for pearls. It could happen right? lmao.

What would be great is if the game designers worked on a proper way to "bank" goods. Sometimes its hard to keep track of what goods you need in the next few days.
 

DeletedUser103223

One reason I prefer a fair trade guild is that when i'm trying to Help guild mates by accepting their trades, I dont feel like looking to see if they are fair or not. I go thru the market trades as quickly as possible helping guild mates out. If i have lower aged goods and dont need them, then bang click trade and help them. If I was in a guild where unfair trades were common place then I wouldnt even go to the market place to try to help guild mates out...
 

DeletedUser110751

One reason I prefer a fair trade guild is that when i'm trying to Help guild mates by accepting their trades, I dont feel like looking to see if they are fair or not. I go thru the market trades as quickly as possible helping guild mates out. If i have lower aged goods and dont need them, then bang click trade and help them. If I was in a guild where unfair trades were common place then I wouldnt even go to the market place to try to help guild mates out...
Help me to understand something then because maybe Im missing something.
In 2 worlds I had issues with this. In one, the guild leader messaged me to take them down. In another guild I was booted without a message. Heres the thing I dont understand and it involves your position on it as well. In every world Ive used "banking" I didnt put the trades up as guild trades. Free market. So to be honest I didnt understand how these guild leaders even knew they were my trades. I only play from my phone. Can EVERYONE see who put every trade up, guild or no guild, from a desktop? Is it just a perk of being a guild leader? Can guild leaders only see trades that the guild members put up? When I go into the market I dont have a clue who put them there.
At the risk of sounding defensive(Im really not. What I did is not against game rules and I dont care who thinks "banking" is wrong), if someone is putting unfair trades in the general market how can you, as a guild member looking to help other guild mates out, care whats on the general market? On my phone I have a little box I can tick to only list guild trades. I happen to know first hand that its not bugged. I tick the box, most of the trades listed disappear.
 

DeletedUser110751

Yes, especially when you're going through taking every trade on the guild market.
Well that sounds like your issue then, not mine. Anyone who has been using electronic devices for any length of time knows better than to click click click click without looking. Thats how you end up with cam girls dancing on your screen and your loosing your mind trying to close windows.
 

DeletedUser110195

Help me to understand something then because maybe Im missing something.
In 2 worlds I had issues with this. In one, the guild leader messaged me to take them down. In another guild I was booted without a message. Heres the thing I dont understand and it involves your position on it as well. In every world Ive used "banking" I didnt put the trades up as guild trades. Free market. So to be honest I didnt understand how these guild leaders even knew they were my trades. I only play from my phone. Can EVERYONE see who put every trade up, guild or no guild, from a desktop? Is it just a perk of being a guild leader? Can guild leaders only see trades that the guild members put up? When I go into the market I dont have a clue who put them there.
At the risk of sounding defensive(Im really not. What I did is not against game rules and I dont care who thinks "banking" is wrong), if someone is putting unfair trades in the general market how can you, as a guild member looking to help other guild mates out, care whats on the general market? On my phone I have a little box I can tick to only list guild trades. I happen to know first hand that its not bugged. I tick the box, most of the trades listed disappear.
Yes, browser players see who posted trades, and guild only means only your guild will see the trade, but no matter what option you pick, your guild will see your trades. I've posted an idea for a trade filter showing only fair trades, then profiteers can bleed each other to their hearts content and if someone genuinely needs something badly enough to take a loss, they can turn the filter off.
 

DeletedUser110751

Yes, browser players see who posted trades, and guild only means only your guild will see the trade, but no matter what option you pick, your guild will see your trades. I've posted an idea for a trade filter showing only fair trades, then profiteers can bleed each other to their hearts content and if someone genuinely needs something badly enough to take a loss, they can turn the filter off.
Its a good idea. That and a separate storage to put away stuff you need.

You would be surprised at how many people will take a loss. For a lot of my bronze age trades I offer 10 for 11 or 20 for 22 and people take them all the time. For other ages I fair trade.
 

Vesiger

Monarch
Can EVERYONE see who put every trade up, guild or no guild, from a desktop?
Yes. Which is why we have a special thread in our mobile-only guild where people can list exactly WHICH trades they urgently want taken, i.e. 17 jewellery for 17 cloth - because we can't see the names attached to the trades, and everyone else can.
if someone is putting unfair trades in the general market how can you, as a guild member looking to help other guild mates out, care whats on the general market? On my phone I have a little box I can tick to only list guild trades. I happen to know first hand that its not bugged. I tick the box, most of the trades listed disappear.
The guild market is a subset of the general market - you can set your trades to be visible to your guildmates only, or offer them to everyone. But you can never hide trades from people who are in the same guild.
 

DeletedUser110195

You would be surprised at how many people will take a loss. For a lot of my bronze age trades I offer 10 for 11 or 20 for 22 and people take them all the time. For other ages I fair trade.
That may not be because they don't mind taking the loss. In one alt-world I joined a guild which was stated to be fair trade, yet people still posted unfair trades, probably got away with it because the guild is pretty much dead. As it was a fair trade guild I trusted guild trades were fair, and when I needed something, new city, bronze age, I wasn't looking at it hard enough to see that it wasn't fair and took it, because it had the right quantity of something I needed. I got screwed over by a so-called guildmate, but I got it back....guild infested with unfair trades, so I posted my own, same goods out and in, my trade was the precise opposite in numbers to the one that took me for a profit. Got them, left the guild.
 

DeletedUser99692

First and foremost there is no way to distinguish open market trades against guild trades. Even if you select guild only every members trade will be displayed. I am Co Founder in one of the guilds that Mechanized centurion posted these trades in. We did contact him and explain that the trades were unfair and against guild policy. We have a lot of members who like to help the guild by accepting trades and don't think that it is fair to them to have to carefully examine every guild trade that is listed to check whether it is fair or not. No we didn't boot him he stormed out of the door when his bright idea was not acceptable and he was asked to remove them. I would suggest that if he feels that this is an acceptable practice he lets his guild know in advance that he has posted bad trades not just throw them up without warning.