"Fair Trade" completely unfair. True fair trade calculator

[Goblin The Great King]

If you want to know trading basis you can read here: Goods buildings explained

At the moment most of players call 1:1 in the same age and 2:1 to one era dirrefence "fair".

What I call fair? Fair is when you can generate the same resource rather than trading it to your guildmates with the same efficiency. So fair includes no profit but only cost of manufacturing. Simple example of true fair is trading Wine (3x3) for Lumber (3x3). But when we start trading Wine (3x3) to stone (4x4) in the 1:1 proportion - we simply use our guildmates or we are being used by them because we can produse more wine than stone and in the end get more resources than our partner - that's a good example of unfair trade.

As for cross-era trades. Fair traid is calculated by comparing the amount of squares you need in your city to produce 1 good. For example to produce 1 ebony in Iron Age you'll need:
1) 48 minutes
2) Ebony Woodworks (4x4) - 16 tiles
3) 3.8 tiles of Bucher to produce the requred 40 supply in 48 minutes. (160 per hour for 4x3 building). Formula is = 3.8/(4*3)/(60*48)*160 = 40
4) 12.6 tiles of Populations building for production. Cottage gives 73 population per 4 squares. 74/4*12.6 = 230 requred for production
5) 1.1 tile of Population building to supply 3.8 tiles of Butcher from 3rd bullet.

TOTAL SPACE required to produce 1 Ebony in Iron Age in 48 minutes is = 16 + 3.8 + 12.6 + 1.1 = 33.5 tiles.

Let's do the same calculation for Ebony but in Erly Middle Ages (EMA). To produce 1 Ebony in EMA in 48 minutes you'll need:
1) 48 minutes
2) Ebony Woodworks (4x4) - 16 tiles
3) 2.1 tiles of Shoemaker to produce 40 supply in 48 minutes. (210 per hour for 3x3 building) Formula is = 2.1/(3*3)/(60*48)*210 = 40
4) 8.3 tiles of Population building for production. Clapboard house gives 111 population per 4 squares. 111/4*8.3 = 230 required for production
5) 0.7 tiles of Population building to supply 2.1 tiles of Shoemaker from 3rd bullet.

TOTAL SPACE required to produce 1 Ebony in Erly Middle Ages (EMA) in 48 minutes is = 16 + 2.1 + 8.3+ 0.7 = 27,1 tiles

*we don't count gold cost because it's being produced with the population buildings as a bypass product.

Now let's do the same calculation but for producing Honey in EMA:
1) 48 minutes
2) Beekeeper (3x3) - 9 tiles
3) 4.3 tiles of shoemaker
4) 12.3 tiles of population building for production building
5) 1.3 population building tiles to sustain Shoemakers

TOTAL SPACE required to produce 1 Honey in Erly Middle Ages (EMA) in 48 minutes is = 9 + 4.3 + 12.3 + 1.3 = 26,9 tile

This example means that when trading 1 honey for 2 Ebony from the guildmate the person gets an 200% profit. Which is extremely far from term "fair".

To cover the current system to all guilds are persons who want to make and sustain a TRUE FAIR trading system I've developed a automated calculator which shows the ratio when you type in what do you want to trade and for what. Also I've developed a matrix to those who don't want to use the document.

Calculator can be found via this link:

LINK TO THE TRUE FAIR TRADE CALCULATOR
*for it to work you have to copy as your document. Broken too many times to give access

You can alternatively use rates from spoilers.

Let's change this un"fair" system into a real true fair together!

My other works:
PRO - Arc swap group automatic equal donations calculator
Great Building Donation Strategy Calculator (Optimal FP to GB donation now automated!)
GE video tutorial (Guild Expedition) with minimal resource loss
Special goods buildings. What era to build? (Tribal square, Terrace Farm, Sunken Treasure etc...)


Bronze Age (BA) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Stone	Lumber	Marble	Dye	Wine	Limestone	Ebony	Iron	Cloth	Jewelry	Copper	Granite	Alabaster	Gold	Honey	Brick	Rope	Salt	Dried Herbs	Glass
Stone	1.0	1.3	1.3	1.3	1.3	0.7	0.7	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.6	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.6
Lumber	0.8	1.0	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.5	0.5	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4
Marble	0.8	1.0	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.5	0.5	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4
Dye	0.8	1.0	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.5	0.5	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4
Wine	0.8	1.0	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.5	0.5	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4

Iron Age (IA) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Limestone	Ebony	Iron	Cloth	Jewelry	Copper	Granite	Alabaster	Gold	Honey	Brick	Rope	Salt	Dried Herbs	Glass	Basalt	Brass	Silk	Talc Powder	Gunpowder
Limestone	1.0	1.0	1.3	1.1	1.1	0.9	0.8	0.9	0.9	1.0	0.8	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.7
Ebony	1.0	1.0	1.3	1.1	1.1	0.9	0.8	0.9	0.9	1.0	0.8	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.7
Iron	0.8	0.8	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.5	0.7	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.5
Cloth	0.9	0.9	1.1	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.6
Jewelry	0.9	0.9	1.1	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.6

Erly Middle Ages (EMA) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Copper	Granite	Alabaster	Gold	Honey	Brick	Rope	Salt	Dried Herbs	Glass	Basalt	Brass	Silk	Talc Powder	Gunpowder	Paper	Coffee	Wire	Porcelain	Tar
Copper	1.0	0.9	1.0	1.0	1.1	0.8	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5
Granite	1.1	1.0	1.1	1.1	1.3	0.9	1.1	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6
Alabaster	1.0	0.9	1.0	1.0	1.1	0.8	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5
Gold	1.0	0.9	1.0	1.0	1.1	0.8	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5
Honey	0.9	0.8	0.9	0.9	1.0	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.4

High Middle Ages (HMA) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Brick	Rope	Salt	Dried Herbs	Glass	Basalt	Brass	Silk	Talc Powder	Gunpowder	Paper	Coffee	Wire	Porcelain	Tar	Rubber	Coke	Textiles	Whale Oil	Fertilizer
Brick	1.0	1.2	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.4
Rope	0.8	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.5	0.5	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.3	0.4	0.4	0.3
Salt	1.0	1.2	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.4
Dried Herbs	1.0	1.2	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.4
Glass	1.0	1.2	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.4

Late Middle Ages (LMA) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Basalt	Brass	Silk	Talc Powder	Gunpowder	Paper	Coffee	Wire	Porcelain	Tar	Rubber	Coke	Textiles	Whale Oil	Fertilizer	Asbestos	Gasoline	Machine Parts	Tinplate	Explosives
Basalt	1.0	1.0	1.2	1.2	1.2	1.1	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.9	0.7	0.6	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.6
Brass	1.0	1.0	1.2	1.2	1.2	1.1	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.9	0.7	0.6	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.6
Silk	0.8	0.8	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.5	0.4
Talc Powder	0.8	0.8	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.5	0.4
Gunpowder	0.8	0.8	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.5	0.4

Colonial Age (CA) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Paper	Coffee	Wire	Porcelain	Tar	Rubber	Coke	Textiles	Whale Oil	Fertilizer	Asbestos	Gasoline	Machine Parts	Tinplate	Explosives	Ferroconcrete	Convenience Food	Flavorants	Packaging	Luxury Materials
Paper	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.3
Coffee	1.1	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.5	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.3
Wire	1.1	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.5	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.3	0.3
Porcelain	1.3	1.2	1.2	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.4	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4
Tar	1.3	1.2	1.2	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.7	0.9	0.9	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.4

Industrial Age (InA) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Rubber	Coke	Textiles	Whale Oil	Fertilizer	Asbestos	Gasoline	Machine Parts	Tinplate	Explosives	Ferroconcrete	Convenience Food	Flavorants	Packaging	Luxury Materials	Renewable Resources	Steel	Semiconductors	Industrial Filters	Genome Data
Rubber	1.0	0.9	1.1	1.1	0.9	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.4
Coke	1.1	1.0	1.2	1.2	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.9	0.5	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.5
Textiles	0.9	0.8	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.4	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.3	0.4	0.4	0.4
Whale Oil	0.9	0.8	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.4	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.3	0.4	0.4	0.4
Fertilizer	1.1	1.0	1.2	1.2	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.9	0.5	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.5

Proggressive Era (PE) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Asbestos	Gasoline	Machine Parts	Tinplate	Explosives	Ferroconcrete	Convenience Food	Flavorants	Packaging	Luxury Materials	Renewable Resources	Steel	Semiconductors	Industrial Filters	Genome Data	Electromagnets	Gas	Plastics	Robots	Bionics Data
Asbestos	1.0	0.9	1.0	1.1	1.1	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5
Gasoline	1.1	1.0	1.1	1.2	1.2	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5
Machine Parts	1.0	0.9	1.0	1.1	1.1	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.5
Tinplate	0.9	0.8	0.9	1.0	1.0	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.4	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.4
Explosives	0.9	0.9	0.9	1.0	1.0	0.6	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.4	0.4	0.4	0.4

Modern Era (ME) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Ferroconcrete	Convenience Food	Flavorants	Packaging	Luxury Materials	Renewable Resources	Steel	Semiconductors	Industrial Filters	Genome Data	Electromagnets	Gas	Plastics	Robots	Bionics Data	Translucent Concrete	Smart Materials	Papercrete	Preservatives	Nutrition Research
Ferroconcrete	1.0	1.1	1.0	1.1	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.6	0.7
Convenience Food	0.9	1.0	0.9	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.7
Flavorants	1.0	1.1	1.0	1.1	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.6	0.7
Packaging	0.9	1.0	0.9	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.6	0.7
Luxury Materials	1.0	1.1	1.0	1.1	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.6	0.7

Postmodern Era (PmE) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Renewable Resources	Steel	Semiconductors	Industrial Filters	Genome Data	Electromagnets	Gas	Plastics	Robots	Bionics Data	Translucent Concrete	Smart Materials	Papercrete	Preservatives	Nutrition Research	Biogeochemical Data	Purified Water	Algae	Superconductors	Nanoparticles
Renewable Resources	1.0	0.9	1.1	1.1	1.1	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6
Steel	1.1	1.0	1.1	1.1	1.1	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.6
Semiconductors	0.9	0.9	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.5
Industrial Filters	1.0	0.9	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.5
Genome Data	1.0	0.9	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.6	0.5

Contemporary Era (CE) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Electromagnets	Gas	Plastics	Robots	Bionics Data	Translucent Concrete	Smart Materials	Papercrete	Preservatives	Nutrition Research	Biogeochemical Data	Purified Water	Algae	Superconductors	Nanoparticles	Nanowire	Transester Gas	A.I. Data	Paper Batteries	Bioplastics
Electromagnets	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.5	0.6	0.5
Gas	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.8	1.0	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6
Plastics	1.1	1.1	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.9	0.9	1.0	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.6
Robots	1.1	1.1	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.8	1.0	0.9	1.0	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.6
Bionics Data	1.1	1.1	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.9	0.9	1.0	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.6

Tomorrow (TE) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Translucent Concrete	Smart Materials	Papercrete	Preservatives	Nutrition Research	Biogeochemical Data	Purified Water	Algae	Superconductors	Nanoparticles	Nanowire	Transester Gas	A.I. Data	Paper Batteries	Bioplastics	Pearls	Artificial Scales	Corals	Biolight	Plankton
Translucent Concrete	1.0	0.9	1.1	1.0	1.1	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.7
Smart Materials	1.1	1.0	1.2	1.1	1.3	0.9	0.9	0.9	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.8
Papercrete	0.9	0.8	1.0	0.9	1.1	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.6	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.5	0.6
Preservatives	1.0	0.9	1.1	1.0	1.1	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.7
Nutrition Research	0.9	0.8	0.9	0.9	1.0	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.7	0.6	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.5	0.6

The Future (TF) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Biogeochemical Data	Purified Water	Algae	Superconductors	Nanoparticles	Nanowire	Transester Gas	A.I. Data	Paper Batteries	Bioplastics	Pearls	Artificial Scales	Corals	Biolight	Plankton	Tea Silk	Data Crystals	Golden Rice	Nanites	Cryptocash
Biogeochemical Data	1.0	1.0	0.9	1.1	0.9	0.8	0.9	0.8	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.9	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.7
Purified Water	1.0	1.0	1.0	1.1	1.0	0.9	1.0	0.8	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.9	0.6	0.7	0.7	0.6	0.7
Algae	1.1	1.0	1.0	1.1	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.8	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.9	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7
Superconductors	0.9	0.9	0.9	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.9	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.8	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6	0.6
Nanoparticles	1.1	1.0	1.0	1.1	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.8	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.9	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7

Arctic Future (AF) goods true fair trade rates

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Offer\Need	Nanowire	Transester Gas	A.I. Data	Paper Batteries	Bioplastics	Pearls	Artificial Scales	Corals	Biolight	Plankton	Tea Silk	Data Crystals	Golden Rice	Nanites	Cryptocash
Nanowire	1.0	1.1	1.0	1.1	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.8	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.8
Transester Gas	0.9	1.0	0.9	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.8	1.0	0.7	0.8	0.7	0.7	0.7
A.I. Data	1.1	1.1	1.0	1.2	1.0	0.9	1.0	1.0	0.9	1.1	0.8	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8
Paper Batteries	0.9	1.0	0.9	1.0	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.9	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7	0.7
Bioplastics	1.0	1.1	1.0	1.1	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.8	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8

Oceanic Future (OF) goods true fair trade rates (data from wiki untested)

Spoiler

Offer\Need	Pearls	Artificial Scales	Corals	Biolight	Plankton	Tea Silk	Data Crystals	Golden Rice	Nanites	Cryptocash
Pearls	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	1.1	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.9
Artificial Scales	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	1.1	0.9	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.9
Corals	1.0	1.0	1.0	0.9	1.1	0.8	0.9	0.8	0.8	0.8
Biolight	1.1	1.1	1.1	1.0	1.2	0.9	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.9
Plankton	1.0	0.9	0.9	0.8	1.0	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.7	0.8

Virtual Future (VF) goods true fair trade rates (data from wiki untested first patch data)

Spoiler

Offer\Need	Tea Silk	Data Crystals	Golden Rice	Nanites	Cryptocash
Tea Silk	1.0	1.1	1.0	1.0	1.0
Data Crystals	0.9	1.0	0.9	0.9	1.0
Golden Rice	1.0	1.1	1.0	1.0	1.0
Nanites	1.0	1.1	1.0	1.0	1.0
Cryptocash	1.0	1.1	1.0	1.0	1.0

 

[DeletedUser112071]

I can see what you are trying to say but you have not taken in to account the amount of extra goods that are needed for higher era buildings such as needing paper to build packaging or needing explosives for gas. These add to the costs of higher era goods and again, the sizes are quite different. You also haven't taken into account that some goods are far more difficult to get hold of than others so that could also be a factor in the costs.

 

[DeletedUser111866]

There is more to determine the actual costs of producing goods. People can get the required goods/supplies by other ways than using supplies production buildings. Say I have a Chateau lv6 (100%, about the local maximum efficiency wise) paired with 14 shoemakers to provide me 7 "collect 2" RQs/day, plus 7 UBQs/day to burn part of the reward as it's conventional click wise, totaling 14 chances at getting either 10 goods (5+100%), 4k or 10k coins or supplies, a BP, a medals pack or a FP pack (these don't count here). Note that the goods produced by this are essentially free, aka bonus, on top of my own actions. This, while requiring an initial cost of collecting BPs for Chateau then trading goods, then raising the building, which is somewhat heavy but affordable over the course of the game, now lets me to cover all expenses with a mere 5x6 space on top of whatever is required to achieve my other goals. Then people have ToB, LoA and other buildings that just generate goods while requiring space, and these are usually way more efficient than goods producing buildings in terms of net benefit, whatever is the rate of valuing supplies and coins against goods. These actually play to equalize goods' costs by era, as you don't only get those goods you build factories for, but any goods from the era can be acquired from these sources.

Speaking about multipliers between the eras, these might eventually get adjusted (allowing wider range of offer vs bid quantities, which IMHO is already desirable), because the availability of goods from other sources gets altered when advancing. For example, the "collect 2 1d production" quests cap out at CA with 3x2 clockmakers, requiring an average of 14 space per RQ, Iron Age has its best at 27 with two butchers and a road, and EMA at 21 space/RQ with either producing building, then in IndA it starts to be a "collect 3" and then higher, as well as the size of supplies producers starts to grow very rapidly. Then there is ME with its "unrefined" goods idea cutting down supplies from LoA and other goods producing GBs, as well as requiring a stock just to make new goods by the buildings instead of just asking for coins+supplies. Then there's Tomorrow that has all OF players gathering stocks by the virtues of goods producers, creating a surplus in supply over demand, as well as whatever new era would come that will eventually make TF this era (except for goods required for Arc, hum). Too many variables to consider IMHO, so a fixed number proved dirty but acceptable solution.

And finally, I've once met a "truly fair" calculator over at the US forums. Is this the same or not?

 

[DeletedUser]

My take on the issue is as follows:

This is a game, 1:2, 1:1, and 2:1 are close enough for me to count as fair trades, I really don't want to have to calculate how much a "fair" ratio is, because what elements should play in the formula is hihgly subjective. I get half of my daily goods from GBs and event buildings, which aren't accounted for in the formula. And at the end of the day, any given good is worth how much you are willing to pay, neither more nor less.

The work that you've done is impressive, but it does not reflect the reality of FoE.

 

[Goblin The Great King]

I can see what you are trying to say but you have not taken in to account the amount of extra goods that are needed for higher era buildings such as needing paper to build packaging or needing explosives for gas. These add to the costs of higher era goods and again, the sizes are quite different. You also haven't taken into account that some goods are far more difficult to get hold of than others so that could also be a factor in the costs.

Thank you for your feedback. It's all takein into account. You can see it in the calculation section. For example from the document:
Smart Materials Factory (5x5) - 25 tiles + Construction Warehouse (5x5) 25 tiles + Porcelain Manufactory (4x4) 16 tiles = 66 tiles in total.
Also for Smart Materials there is -2 tiles bonus modifier for 500 happiness based on the happiness buildings efficiency of the age.

You can doublecheck it in the document. Same for the population. Also the bigger the era the less you need population for unrefined goods.

And it's all calculated.

 

[Goblin The Great King]

There is more to determine the actual costs of producing goods. People can get the required goods/supplies by other ways than using supplies production buildings. Say I have a Chateau lv6 (100%, about the local maximum efficiency wise) paired with 14 shoemakers to provide me 7 "collect 2" RQs/day, plus 7 UBQs/day to burn part of the reward as it's conventional click wise, totaling 14 chances at getting either 10 goods (5+100%), 4k or 10k coins or supplies, a BP, a medals pack or a FP pack (these don't count here). Note that the goods produced by this are essentially free, aka bonus, on top of my own actions. This, while requiring an initial cost of collecting BPs for Chateau then trading goods, then raising the building, which is somewhat heavy but affordable over the course of the game, now lets me to cover all expenses with a mere 5x6 space on top of whatever is required to achieve my other goals. Then people have ToB, LoA and other buildings that just generate goods while requiring space, and these are usually way more efficient than goods producing buildings in terms of net benefit, whatever is the rate of valuing supplies and coins against goods. These actually play to equalize goods' costs by era, as you don't only get those goods you build factories for, but any goods from the era can be acquired from these sources.

Speaking about multipliers between the eras, these might eventually get adjusted (allowing wider range of offer vs bid quantities, which IMHO is already desirable), because the availability of goods from other sources gets altered when advancing. For example, the "collect 2 1d production" quests cap out at CA with 3x2 clockmakers, requiring an average of 14 space per RQ, Iron Age has its best at 27 with two butchers and a road, and EMA at 21 space/RQ with either producing building, then in IndA it starts to be a "collect 3" and then higher, as well as the size of supplies producers starts to grow very rapidly. Then there is ME with its "unrefined" goods idea cutting down supplies from LoA and other goods producing GBs, as well as requiring a stock just to make new goods by the buildings instead of just asking for coins+supplies. Then there's Tomorrow that has all OF players gathering stocks by the virtues of goods producers, creating a surplus in supply over demand, as well as whatever new era would come that will eventually make TF this era (except for goods required for Arc, hum). Too many variables to consider IMHO, so a fixed number proved dirty but acceptable solution.

And finally, I've once met a "truly fair" calculator over at the US forums. Is this the same or not?

Hello. Thank you for a good feedback. There is a good reason I didn't include GBs into the calculation. Some people might have them. Some don't. It's a market mechanism that will balance out persons desire to choose GB over another.

The calculation is done for the clean system without GBs. Some people will have one, some others. It will not change the ethalon (no GBs at all).

Unfortuantely I didn't find anything so I've developed the system from scratch. I've posted about it yesterday on the US forum with the link here. Just to bring more attention.

 

[Goblin The Great King]

My take on the issue is as follows:

This is a game, 1:2, 1:1, and 2:1 are close enough for me to count as fair trades, I really don't want to have to calculate how much a "fair" ratio is, because what elements should play in the formula is hihgly subjective. I get half of my daily goods from GBs and event buildings, which aren't accounted for in the formula. And at the end of the day, any given good is worth how much you are willing to pay, neither more nor less.

The work that you've done is impressive, but it does not reflect the reality of FoE.

True fair for honey to dye is 1:1 not 2:1. True fair for stones to dye is 10:8 not 10:10. True fair for Granite to Rope is 10:11 not 20:10.

My calculation is done for the guilds who what to develop a good relationships inside. As for now 1:2 system simply use inexperienced players from lower ages as a tool for advanced players to get profit. Which is fine with me, but it's far away from the term "fair".

Also current system bring some soviet union to the FoE. Where price for a good quality resource (granite for example) is the same as for Honey. But there are tons of honey on the market and there is no granite to find

 

[Agent327]

Unfortuantely I didn't find anything so I've developed the system from scratch. I've posted about it yesterday on the US forum with the link here. Just to bring more attention.

Why?

Inno does not recognize any form of fair trade. They did not for a long time and with the coming of the app they came with their own version which is always 2:1 when trading to another era.

What makes you think you can change this?

Besides that, your system has as many flaws as the other systems.

According to you I can trade pearls to coral 1:1, but pearls cost me happiness and coral gives me happiness. Where do you take that into account?

 

[Goblin The Great King]

Why?

Inno does not recognize any form of fair trade. They did not for a long time and with the coming of the app they came with their own version which is always 2:1 when trading to another era.

What makes you think you can change this?

Besides that, your system has as many flaws as the other systems.

According to you I can trade pearls to coral 1:1, but pearls cost me happiness and coral gives me happiness. Where do you take that into account?

Thank you for the feedback.

Inno did not give any strict guidelines on how to trade and that's good. What I'm talking about do not concern Inno in any way. I'm talking about the information that is a "common knowledge" and posted in wiki labeled as "fair" trade. This info is not from Inno. It is a player generated content. And this content wasn't generated by economist because it's so much flawed.

I don't want to change the whole system. I'm rather helping noobs and guilds to make ther trading true fair. So that no matter what goods building you build you get EXACT same amout of goods compared to other players per 1 tile of your city.

You must be talking about TE and FE. Because there is no information on the wiki about OF goods building modifying happiness. As for goods building which modify happines - you can see it in the table that there is a special modificator for tiles based on the happiness per tipe of a cultiral building of that particular age for that. So it's very accurate and happines also taken into the account.

 

[Agent327]

So you have come up with a system based on a wiki that is not complete. I presume you have come up with your "spoiler rates" by using your table and those rates are not correct if you take everything into account. From that I can only conclude your table is wrong.

 

[Goblin The Great King]

So you have come up with a system based on a wiki that is not complete. I presume you have come up with your "spoiler rates" by using your table and those rates are not correct if you take everything into account. From that I can only conclude your table is wrong.

For Oceanic Era? May be. I only had information from wiki regarding oceanic future buildings. For all other 14 eras? Nop. It's all correct

 

[Agent327]

Wiki does not show it for Arctic either, so you are not correct. In later era's I need raw goods to produce goods.m No way you can take into calculation how I get them.

 

[Goblin The Great King]

Wiki does not show it for Arctic either, so you are not correct. In later era's I need raw goods to produce goods.m No way you can take into calculation how I get them.

The calculation was done as you were producing a whole chain yourself. It's all calculated. If you are producing other goods and trade it - it's ok as long as you do it for the same true fair trade calculation.

 

[DeletedUser99692]

and what about those that plunder goods to trade what is fair then? What about multi reward buildings. Should one player be justified in charging more for their goods because their city has a smaller footprint than others. As has been said the work you have put in is impressive but no where does it allow for all of the variations that this crazy game can throw up. You are trying to equate it down to time and game tile like a marketing study. You forget this is not the real world and its principles do not apply. The only exception has already been stated "at the end of the day, any given good is worth how much you are willing to pay, neither more nor less."

 

[Goblin The Great King]

and what about those that plunder goods to trade what is fair then? What about multi reward buildings. Should one player be justified in charging more for their goods because their city has a smaller footprint than others. As has been said the work you have put in is impressive but no where does it allow for all of the variations that this crazy game can throw up. You are trying to equate it down to time and game tile like a marketing study. You forget this is not the real world and its principles do not apply. The only exception has already been stated "at the end of the day, any given good is worth how much you are willing to pay, neither more nor less."

Thank you for your good questions. I will answer them 1 at a time.

1. what about those that plunder goods to trade what is fair then?
Yes fair. Plundered resources are still produced in small or large buildings. So better to plunder the large buildings to get the max out of it.

2. What about multi reward buildings?
Yes fair. You have to get thouse buildings. And still most of resources for most players are produced through the regular goods buildings.

3. Should one player be justified in charging more for their goods because their city has a smaller footprint than others.
You don't charge more for larger foot print... You charge the same. And if you question is - is it just to get more from the bigger city than my answer is yes! The bigger city you have, the more you can produce. Fair is about the same goods per 1 tile of the city. Not for the whole city.

4. You are trying to equate it down to time and game tile like a marketing study. You forget this is not the real world and its principles do not apply.
You would be amazed at how this is the same as in real world where people buy 5$ trash for 200$ not knowing the true price

5. at the end of the day, any given good is worth how much you are willing to pay, neither more nor less.
Totally true. That's how market economy works. My study is created to change the quantity of how much people are going to want to pay. Additional information can change the balance on the market.

If all people knew what is stated here, prices would change in 1 hour on all servers. The only reason "fair" traide is working because this math is not so obvious, but anyone can understand it.

 

[DeletedUser112745]

The current fair trade ratios work perfectly fine. They’re simple. Whereas your suggestion is a tad more complicated, which will likely confuse players, especially those used to the current accepted ratios.

This is a game, not real life. Let’s keep things simple. Fictional things aren’t really supposed to be deadly accurate.

The number one rule of game development: Never fix something that isn’t broken.

 

[Deleted User - 90180]

To cover the current system to all guilds are persons who want to make and sustain a TRUE FAIR trading system I've developed a automated calculator which shows the ratio when you type in what do you want to trade and for what. Also I've developed a matrix to those who don't want to use the document.

Nice work man, I always want to do similar research but never have time/patience for this. The correct term for this work is "research" indeed.
But you see, while I agree with your approach I cannot deny ...

I get half of my daily goods from GBs and event buildings, which aren't accounted for in the formula.

So my final thoughts - current trade system is far from perfect but look at things from this perspective: you lose some goods in one age but you get extra in the next due to random appearance of goods on the continent map. And also your current neighbors/guildies/friends have different needs.

One of the market rules is - demands should be covered by offers.
My FoE experience of this rule - at one time half of my guild and some friends suddenly decided to build Inno towers and while there was enough of other CE goods there was huge shortage of Robots on the market. So if it was "real life market" people could offer Robots for almost any prize and still other will buy it quickly. So in our guild we agreed among players with bonus Robot production to build extra factories to compensate that demand. After couple weeks everything went back to normal again.

 

[Deleted User - 90180]

Also current system bring some soviet union to the FoE. Where price for a good quality resource (granite for example) is the same as for Honey. But there are tons of honey on the market and there is no granite to find

Also keep in mind this game does not have global market. Its only current neighborhood/guild/friends around 200-250 players. And these "tons of honey" could mean you was unlucky with neighborhood, in 2 weeks it could be tons of granite and no honey or you could advance into next age and situation will be completely different

 

[DeletedUser99692]

The current fair trade ratios work perfectly fine. They’re simple. Whereas your suggestion is a tad more complicated, which will likely confuse players, especially those used to the current accepted ratios.

This is a game, not real life. Let’s keep things simple. Fictional things aren’t really supposed to be deadly accurate.

The number one rule of game development: Never fix something that isn’t broken.

So very true. Having spent years trying to explain the very basics of trade to newbies to try to explain this method would not only have me tearing out my hair but would have them running to find a simpler game to play.

 

[Goblin The Great King]

Thank you for your kind words and comments. I do appreciate it.

You are right about the imposibility to implement this system in most cases because of the complexity. Still it has limited uses like - alternative for guilf rates or for guild trader. Or using it with friends.

To be hones I was just having a good time creating the document. I love Inno game designer and It was kinda the process to undetstand the diversity of the goods system he has developed