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Era-Trolls . . . do you hate such play?

DeletedUser117706

(A)
Definition: era-troll
noun
noun: era-troll; plural noun: era-trolls
  1. 1.
    a player who deliberately stays in a low era/age to bully new/regular players.
    • a bully who deliberately tries to ruin Inno Games customers fun and quit, lowering Inno Games future revenues significantly.
  2. 2.
    a schoolyard bully that has failed the 3rd grade (4th year/Lower stage) six years in a row and is a foot taller than other students
verb
  1. 1.
    stay in a low era/age in order to get cheap thrills from bullying and attacking new players with the aim of ruining new players fun and hopefully even making a new customer/player quit Forge of Empires, costing Inno Games a valuable customer and significant potential future revenue source.
    usage: "era-trolling causes Inno Games to lose new customers and lose significant future revenues."
(B)
Possible Solutions:
  1. First off, it is important to state that Inno Games clearly does not support bullying. They obviously work hard to stop it;
  2. Inno Games could base local neighborhood placement on age-of-player, not era. Example: A player who has been in Early Middle Age for 2 years will be placed in a local neighborhood populated by players of an era equivalent to 2-years of play (like Virtual Future era) when neighborhood rotations occur;
  3. Leave neighborhood rotations the same but if a player has been in a specific era (like Early Middle Age) for more than 3 months, limit who they can attack/plunder/sabotage to only players with similar numbers of months in the game. Example: A player who has been in Early Middle Age for 4 months, will only be able to attack or plunder players that have been in that Early Middle Age era for at least 3 months.
  4. Limit plunder/sabotage ability to only players who have an equal number of months in the game. Example: A player who has been playing for 2 years in Early Middle Age attacks a player who has only been playing one month - the era-troll can only win the battle and cannot plunder the new player's city or sabotage it. The era-troll can get a battle win, but can't take resources or slow the new player down by sabotage.
It is important to note that new players don't quit because they battle with other new players, it is only when they look at some era-troll's city and discover the attacker who is daily ruining their fun is some era-troll that has 40 Ritual Flames and level 80's Castle del Monte, Cathedral of Aachen and Statue of Zeus, and even great buildings like Terracotta Army and Kraken, even though they are in the Early Middle ages after two years. (NOTE: try not to suggest new players get stronger because new players by definition will not have those resources to get stronger for several months - such suggestions are just adding insult to injury similar to telling a car accident victim to just buck up and ignore the bone sticking out of their leg and walk it off).

(C)
Era-Trolls are Economic Free-Riders and bad for business & revenues:

In Economics, non-paying users are called "Free-riders." The economic definition of a Free-rider is:
  • "the burden on a shared resource that is created by its misuse or abuse by people who aren't paying anything at all."
  1. Era-Trolls are almost universally proud of the fact they do not pay to play at all. Era-trolls misuse the free access aspect of Forge of Empires by staying in one era and causing new customers/players to quit;
  2. Era-trolls who remain in a low era and attack new players can make new players quit. These new players are potential future sources of revenue for Inno Games. When era-trolls, who by nature are proud of playing for free, cause new players to quit, Inno Games loses significant future revenue by losing new players who would potentially purchase valuable diamond packs and take advantage of other great Inno Games offers. These offers by Inno Games make a huge difference in advancing in the game and make the game much more enjoyable, and are very reasonably priced.
  3. A Single non-paying era-troll can cause a dozen or more players to quit every month. These new players who quit are no longer customers and Inno Games won't be getting any revenues from either the new players or the era-troll (since era-trolls are proud they don't pay to play by nature).
(D)
Excuses Era-Trolls Make for their Bullying and for costing Inno Games future revenue:
Like any schoolyard bully, era-trolls get a cheap thrill out ruining others' fun. Era-Trolls use all kinds of excuses to deflect responsibility for their damage to Inno Games customer base. These excuses and deflections include:​
  1. Inno Games lets us do it;
  2. New players should just quit and find another game to play;
  3. Weak players should find other games to play;
  4. New players should have stronger armies (note: an impossibility for new players);
  5. I don't pay anything to play, so I don't care;
  6. The more players I upset the better I feel;
  7. I like to ruin others' fun;
  8. New players are just whiners;
  9. It's no big deal, just ignore it (denies how much damage a long-term player can do to a new players daily or weekly growth).
All of these above excuses, and others that era-trolls make to excuse their behavior, do not address the fact that Forge of Empires is Inno Games' business and does not belong to era-trolls . . . as such, era-trolls who hang around low eras for a year or more and who enjoy upsetting new players or causing new players to quit are damaging Inno Games revenues by driving off customers who are significant sources of future of revenue. Because era-trolls are by nature non-paying players, they are bad for business in that they drive off (make quit) new players/customers.

(E)
Summary: What do you think?
Should Inno Games work towards limiting era-troll access to new players in future updates? What other solutions could Inno Games implement to limit era-trolls access to new players/customers?
Give a like if you would like Inno Games to give some thought to this issue. We all deserve to be able to have fun and be free from bullies, whether in real life or when we are just trying to have some innocent fun by playing this great game of Forge of Empires :-)
 
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DeletedUser117706

. . . Since you seem to know why they do it, you must be one.

. . . see points (D) 6,7 and 8 above.

Is it safe to say you are supportive of era-trolling that makes new players quit and costs Inno Games significant revenues in lost customers then Agent327?
 
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DeletedUser100133

It looks all pretty interesting, but please tell me how you would fit players free will into all this?
 

DeletedUser

I have Camped in Eras to consolidate my position and strengthen my City. I do not, as a rule, Plunder any other Player unless it is to punish them for Plundering my City. I have encountered many ETs and get where you are coming from though and have found my own ways of hitting back; adding the last FPs to hit them and their Guild has proved effective . FPs are not available to most Low Era Players and spending them must be done selectively. The spoilers and Griefers are an unfortunate part of most Games and do cause harm simply because they are damaged individuals intent on inflicting said damage onto others.
 

DeletedUser117706

I have Camped in Eras to consolidate my position and strengthen my City. I do not, as a rule, Plunder any other Player unless it is to punish them for Plundering my City. I have encountered many ETs and get where you are coming from though and have found my own ways of hitting back; adding the last FPs to hit them and their Guild has proved effective . FPs are not available to most Low Era Players and spending them must be done selectively. The spoilers and Griefers are an unfortunate part of most Games and do cause harm simply because they are damaged individuals intent on inflicting said damage onto others.

. . . you are clearly NOT an "era-troll."

"Campers" are clearly distinguished from "era-trolls" by their motives and behaviors. Players like yourself that do not plunder or sabotage unless hit first (if possible which is not always possible) are positive and good for the game. Some positive players, even go one step further if they have to attack for a quest or challenge, will leave a message saying they don't plunder or sabotage but just needed a few wins for a daily or other quest. When I first started playing, that made a big difference as I didn't have to worry for the next 24 hours about some bully with a level 80 Arctic Orangery adding plundering insult to the injury of attacking my much younger city.

I feel like era-trolls are exploiting a loophole that was never meant to exist. Battles and plundering was likely never meant to be a tool for bullies to exploit but here these era-trolls are . . . it's now up to Inno Games to take a closer look at how to increase the positive experience of their new customers and keep era-trolls from ruining their fun possibly making them quit.
 

DeletedUser100133

Bullies always infringe on others free will.

Interesting point. What do you class bullying in the game? As your definition may be different from another player definition of bullying.
 

DeletedUser117706

Interesting point. What do you class bullying in the game? As your definition may be different from another player definition of bullying.

FIRST OFF:
It is very clear that Inno Games does not support bullying in any form. There is no doubt Inno Games works hard to stop bullies but loopholes do appear.

To address your question:
As one example, the United Nations Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Violence Against Children has stated publicly and in formal declarations:
"Bullying can be defined as intentional and aggressive behaviour occurring repeatedly against a victim where there is a real or perceived power imbalance, and where the victim feels vulnerable and powerless to defend himself or herself."



Note that the indication is "occurring repeatedly" which is what era-trolls do, over and over and over again by attacking new players young cities. As many new players clearly "perceive" a "power imbalance" once they look at an era-troll's city and see it belongs to a player who has clearly been player for a year or more with many boost buildings present, they often express disgust and upset including "feel[ing] vulnerable and powerless to defend himself or herself."

It is very reasonable to assume that many children will be playing Forge of Empires. Adults also do not appreciate cyber-bullying in any form. Era-trolls are bullies as the United Nation definition above clearly shows.

It's pretty easy to just look at the effects of era-trolls as the behavior of bullies . . . one single era-troll can cause a dozen or more new players/customers to quit costing Inno Games investors and developers significant revenues.

People join Forge of Empires because they want to have fun, not be cyber bullied by an era-troll who enjoys being aggressive repeatedly against players who are clearly expressing they do not enjoy it.
 
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DeletedUser

Lol, I do msg recipients of Attacks as I count it a simple courtesy teest.
Inno cannot mandate to enforce non-predation Rules; it would then have a negative impact on the play-style of those who Plunder as a normal part of the way they choose to play. It's a part of the Game which will have to remain a mutable grey area. Most Players can work through/past this predation whilst others simply cannot or will not put up with it or counter it.
The Players who do leave; no figures can be put forward, let alone proven, are the Game equivalent of those who emigrated from The Old World to the New World as a natural concomitant of the oppression of their own rulers, something which continues today and is nothing new. This Game is about creating an Empire, by nature a violent and tribulatory pastime. It involves various aspects and to impose more rules would seem to me, contra-indicatory to the underlying concept. Too many rules cause more issues than too few, or at least that's how I see it. I'm not PC in the Real World, I'm rebellious and anarchic, to a degree. Free will and self determination are more important than legislated safety and blandness.
 
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Agent327

Overlord
Is it safe to say you are supportive of era-trolling that makes new players quit and costs Inno Games significant revenues in lost customers then Agent327?

Nah, it is just safe to say I do not like people that make all sort of assumptions and present them as facts.

I will give you some hard facts.

Fact is that Inno supports plundering. They do so with game tips, with GB's that entice you to plunder and most of all with the DNSL on most servers.

Basically you are the troll here. You do not like a specific part of the game so everybody has to see it your way. Someone that plays the game in a way he is allowed to gets labeled as a bully and something needs to be done about it simply cause you do not like it. You are not the first to come up with this and undoubtedly will not be the last, in the 7 years the game exist nobody ever got anywhere with this. You are pulling on a dead horse.

FIRST OFF:
It is very clear that Inno Games does not support bullying in any form. There is no doubt Inno Games works hard to stop bullies but loopholes do appear.

If they do not support it and it is that clear, can you give some examples of their hard work to stop the bullying and what the loopholes are they encounter?
 

DeletedUser117706

Lol, I do msg recipients of Attacks as I count it a simple courtesy teest. Inno cannot mandate to enforce non-predation Rules; it would then have a negative impact on the play-style of those who Plunder as a normal part of the way they choose to play. It's a part of the Game which will have to remain a mutable grey area. Most Players can work through/past this predation whilst others simply cannot or will not put up with it or counter it.

Plundering isn't the issue, abuse of plundering by era-trolls is the issue. While this is a game it is clear that cyber-bullying is not. Era-trolling is a form of cyber-bullying.

Despite the suggestion, that "It's a part of the Game which will have to remain a mutable grey area," that isn't true of course; Inno Games most certainly can change that very quickly. Limiting cyber-bullies access to young children and new players by ensuring era-trolls cannot become involved in their game experience is worth consideration by Inno Games.

You of course confirm you are a positive player in that you "do msg recipients of Attacks" to indicate you won't plunder them but just need to do it for a daily quest (such msgs are a fantastic form of mentoring within the game to be sure) - sadly, not every player is a good person (although the vast majority are).
 
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DeletedUser117706

Nah, it is just safe to say I do not like people that make all sort of assumptions and present them as facts.

I will give you some hard facts.

Fact is that Inno supports plundering. They do so with game tips, with GB's that entice you to plunder and most of all with the DNSL on most servers.

Basically you are the troll here. You do not like a specific part of the game so everybody has to see it your way. Someone that plays the game in a way he is allowed to gets labeled as a bully and something needs to be done about it simply cause you do not like it. You are not the first to come up with this and undoubtedly will not be the last, in the 7 years the game exist nobody ever got anywhere with this. You are pulling on a dead horse.

If they do not support it and it is that clear, can you give some examples of their hard work to stop the bullying and what the loopholes are they encounter?

Plundering is not the issue here. People who abuse Plundering by era-trolling neighborhoods for years solely to abuse, upset and make new players quit is the issue.

As you are coming across as strongly supporting bullying and upsetting new players to the point they quit you should once again carefully re-read the original post so you aren't just seen as supporting bullying as you are at this time. Surely you can't be happy that Inno Games investors and stakeholders could be experiencing significant lost revenues because era-trolls are causing new customers to quit? I don't want others here to see you as supporting cyber-bullying which surely cannot be your intention :-(

Are you in favor of bullying Agent327?

Take some time to reread the original post. If you still feel like you want to add some texture to the conversation please suggest some positive solutions as opposed to just personally attacking me, thank you in advance Agent327, your cooperation is much appreciated.
 
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Agent327

Overlord
Plundering is not the issue here. People who abuse Plundering by era-trolling neighborhoods for years solely to abuse, upset and make new players quit is the issue.

Who says they abuse it? Inno obviously not.

As you are coming across as strongly supporting bullying and upsetting new players to the point they quit you should once again carefully re-read the original post so you aren't just seen as supporting bullying as you are at this time. Surely you can't be happy that Inno Games investors and stakeholders could be experiencing significant lost revenues because era-trolls are causing new customers to quit?

Why? Are you not allowed to have an opinion other than yours? Are you now bullying me to agree with you?

Are you in favor of bullying Agent327?

No, I just detest those that label others as bullies while all they do is play the game as allowed.

Don't be upset that you haven't understood the main issue here Agent327. Take some time to reread the original post. If you still feel like you want to take part in a civilized conversation please suggest some positive solutions as opposed to just personally attacking me, thank you in advance Agent327, your cooperation is much appreciated.

I am not attacking you. I am attacking your attitude and the assumptions you make. In a civilized conversation you would have answered my questions.

I know a "bully" that is in SAM and just spend what must have been a considerable sum of money to acquire 5 crow's nests. Care to tell how you would take care of that "bully"?
 

DeletedUser117706

funny how people who want to restrict or punish other players who are doing better than they are, don't consider that a form of bullying

There's nothing funny about cyber-bullying rjs66, and surely you don't want to be seen as supporting that, which is exactly how it appears at this time . . . re-read the original post.

Would you say you are a pro-era-troll, pro-cyber-bullying supporter? The first thing bullies and their supporters always do is deny their behavior is bullying. Era-trolls are cyber-bullies.
 
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Agent327

Overlord
But that's the whole point here rjs66, these era-trolls aren't doing better than other players, they are just trying to upset new players and they take pleasure in that, as is obvious in that they have likely received dozens if not hundreds of messages expressing upset and hurt over the attacks these era-trolls are engaging in.

Again more assumptions. Only way you could know this is if you are a bully yourself. If not, you should not present what you think as a fact.

Your way to hammer your view across is a form of bullying. Agree with me or...

How tall are you?
 

rjs66

Lieutenant
you are making assumptions about other people's motives for the way they play, to suit your own prejudices

this is a strategy game, their strategy is to gain a lot of power in their city, rather than race ahead
there are many ways to play

you are given lots chances to advance and many ways to defend against attacks
your strategy appears to be complain rather than do something positive, like advance your city and become more powerful yourself

the neighbourhoods change regularly and there can't be many who you call era-trolls, so they will rotate out of your neighbourhood quite soon

rise to the challenge and overcome it, if our distant ancestors took the attitude of it's too difficult, it's not fair, etc.. etc.., we would still be sitting in trees picking bugs out of each others fur
 

DeletedUser117706

Again more assumptions. Only way you could know this is if you are a bully yourself. If not, you should not present what you think as a fact.

Your way to hammer your view across is a form of bullying. Agree with me or...

How tall are you?

Why would you ask for personal information from a person online Agent327? What's next, do you want my age? My home address?
 

Zeratul 2.0

Lieutenant Colonel
Bullies.... are bullied at home by their parents, against whom they can't fight back. And so they take it out on others.

This is final and conclusive analysis. :)

I watched it somewhere in a video. The guy tells the bully "I totally get you. All the frustration and anger, in the heart... It must be very difficult... If hitting me helps you let it out, do it. I don't blame you..." The bully goes "Ahhhh! (screaming) Leave me alone!" and runs away.

And this is NOT far-fetched and not off-topic from the game. Because, similarly as in the game, the bullies stopped growing, and remained in the lower ages...

(I think this makes so much sense.)
 
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