Defensive Army AI

[Dead-Eye]

The player(s) are modeling churlish, loutish, clownish and mean roles, uncouth in manners, rudeness due to insensitiveness to others' feelings with an unwillingness to be anything but drunken lazy power hungry cutthroats acting with surliness and ungraciousness in their chosen role models. They are plundering thieves!

And proud of it!!!!!

 

[Knight of ICE]

@Knight of ICE so quick to jump to conclusions, to make assumptions and not willing to try to understand what I wrote? Did you understand the disclaimer?

The point I'm making in this thread is not directed at individual players but to the roles they will model as plunders in a free role-playing strategy game.

That is exactly what plundering involves. It is not an honorable profession. It doesn't deserve an honorable title. If you need proof, look it up in a history book.

Disclaimers are like smileys. They are used to get away with what you are saying. Just cause your comments are not made at individual players does not mean they are not derogatory. This is a game and as part of the game plundering is an honorable profession. You can even get an achievement for it. Stop comparing it to real life. That has nothing to do with it.

 

[DESYPETE]

You have that right, but if that determination is decided by you alone, why are you seeking confirmation from others?



They boast about their game performance. A lot of players do. Never see players boast how they play the game without fighting?

Players that complain are complaining about something that is part of the game and allowed. They are not being bullied. They are taking a victim role. It's like a soccerplayer taking a dive and complaining he does not get rewarded for it.

Players like you, that are calling players that plunder, cowards and bullies over and over again, are contributing to the fact that part of the players will never stop plundering and the other part will never stop whining and complaining.

You sir, are a feeder.

no i am a decent type of person, who doesnt steal, and brought my kids up not to steal from people, and certainly never to use there strength to bully weak people,

there is a kind of sick perverse feeling these plunderers get from hurting others and i am surprised in this day and age that its allowed,

to have a roll of honor thread is just trying to rub peoples back ups personally i ignore that thread now as if i dare post in there i know you sir will always be there ready to delete, thankfully i can post freely on facebook and plunderers do get a hard time of it on that format, or they just get ignored as attention seekers,

 

[Knight of ICE]

To suggest that plundering is an honorable profession is very unrealistic and just not logical.

But suggesting people live in a snowglobe is?

What I am doing however is looking at the absurdity of attaching silly pride to a tiny plundering thief. Not referring to the player but to a dirty little game character with blood on his hands.

Again not derogatory?

Blood on his hands! Wow! Why not state that people commit suicide cause they are plundered. That would even have a bigger impact.

no i am a decent type of person, who doesnt steal, and brought my kids up not to steal from people, and certainly never to use there strength to bully weak people,

there is a kind of sick perverse feeling these plunderers get from hurting others and i am surprised in this day and age that its allowed,

to have a roll of honor thread is just trying to rub peoples back ups personally i ignore that thread now as if i dare post in there i know you sir will always be there ready to delete, thankfully i can post freely on facebook and plunderers do get a hard time of it on that format, or they just get ignored as attention seekers,

True. If you break forum rules your posts get edited or deleted. So what would you advice your kids to do?

 

[Knight of ICE]

People are right. This thread has gone off topic far enough. Sorry to have been part of that. Comments are now becoming derogatory and insuilting as well. Time to get back on topic. Several off topic posts removed.

 

[rjs66]

i love this idea of "stealing" - everything on the servers is owned by Inno Games , all the players are doing is changing the data at the discretion of Inno Games who let you play for free within their rules.

anything in the game has no real world value

 

[potatoskunk]

This thread was not originally intended to discuss the merits or demerits of plundering; there are other threads for that. It was intended to discuss whether the defensive army AI should be improved.

I do a lot more plundering than getting plundered, and I don't really have a strong preference. If you set a good defensive army and don't age up too quickly, that alone will keep most plunderers out, even without much focus on defensive bonuses. The attackers that are determined to get through - they'll find a way through no matter what you do, even with improved AI.

 

[Emberguard]

there is a kind of sick perverse feeling these plunderers get from hurting others and i am surprised in this day and age that its allowed,

no i am a decent type of person, who doesnt steal, and brought my kids up not to steal from people, and certainly never to use there strength to bully weak people,

If you take plundering in a game to be stealing or hurting someone then I'd hope you apply that same standard to every game you play no matter how tame it seems. That includes games like Mario Kart and Go Fish which would be impossible to play without "stealing" from your opponent (even if by accident).

discuss whether the defensive army AI should be improved.

yeah I wouldn't mind if that were improved. Though if it were improved how far would it be worth taking? Against a weak opponent it's suicide to ignore the rogues if you can't take out the normal units quick enough. Against a opponent in higher ages or stronger stats it's suicide to go for the rogues. If they have Barbarians you'd want to evenly damage the units to avoid triggering their special skill. Would it be worth changing the AI based on the unit skills and boosts present for both sides or should the AI have a single strategy that's deemed to be the most likely to succeed over a variety of scenario's?

 

[Groovy Prof]

Personally If i plunder I leave a polite message to say why, unless they have already attacked and plundered, in which case they know damn well why! (LOL)
But I don't do it every chance I get but only where needed to get a quest.
I understand the feelings of those who are incessantly plundered by players who have stayed in an era whilst amassing 10 million points and are 9.5 million points above the norm. There are 1 or 2 that get perverse pleasure from attacking certain players over and over, but luckily they are in the minority.
As stated plundering is part of the game....just remember to be nice and not repeatedly target the same players.
Thanks to potatoskunk for trying to bring us back on topic....however the side issues are interesting

 

[Groovy Prof]

no i am a decent type of person, who doesnt steal, and brought my kids up not to steal from people, and certainly never to use there strength to bully weak people,

there is a kind of sick perverse feeling these plunderers get from hurting others and i am surprised in this day and age that its allowed,

to have a roll of honor thread is just trying to rub peoples back ups personally i ignore that thread now as if i dare post in there i know you sir will always be there ready to delete, thankfully i can post freely on facebook and plunderers do get a hard time of it on that format, or they just get ignored as attention seekers,

Hopefully most of us fall into the same category.
Like you, I was brought up to respect other peoples values,
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who aren't, or have a wire crossed and are unaware of their actions.

But despite this ....would like to know your opinion on the defensive AI.

Do you think or feel that having the weakest/lowest AI that the game has to offer, is fair or sensible, to have as the defensive AI?
(Bearing in mind there are far stronger programmed AI's at work on the world map and in other areas?)
After all, no matter what % defence you have from countless defensive buildings, guard posts etc, are then negated by an AI that is working at the lowest common denominator?

 

[Knight of ICE]

Bearing in mind there are far stronger programmed AI's at work on the world map and in other areas?

What other areas?

You keep making these statements. Where is your proof?

 

[Groovy Prof]

What other areas?

You keep making these statements. Where is your proof?

Seriously?
Or have you not experienced later ages on the world map etc, where the AI does not target rogues?

I keep making them because they are true and present in the game.
I know I haven't a huge experience in the game, but I have already experienced it...as I'm sure you have or will...eventually.

 

[Groovy Prof]

A lot of you are quoting Janet Devlin....where are her posts?

 

[Knight of ICE]

Seriously?
Or have you not experienced later ages on the world map etc, where the AI does not target rogues?

Question is what other areas. To make it more clear to you, what other areas besides the world map.

I keep making them because they are true and present in the game.
I know I haven't a huge experience in the game, but I have already experienced it...as I'm sure you have or will...eventually.

If they are true and present in the game it would be no problem for you to explain where and how.

 

[Thomas Covenent]

Hopefully most of us fall into the same category.
Like you, I was brought up to respect other peoples values,
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who aren't, or have a wire crossed and are unaware of their actions.

...or just maybe, you can STOP projecting your feelings onto others?
People are too damn soft nowadays, and go out of their way to find something offensive/'ist/ism' in everything.

If a player is being plundered on a regular basis, then instead of crying about how evil/unfair the game & other players are, take a moment for some inward reflection;
- is my city under leveled for my era? (ie: why is your HMA city full of BA/IA goods with 0 EMA/HMA goods buildings?)

- am I leaving my finished productions uncollected for hours/days at a time?
If you can't keep say 8hr pick-ups, then go for a 24hr production that you can time to finish when you KNOW you will be able to play.

- do I have event buildings such as Olympic Treasury/Gov's Villa/etc... that only produce goods once they're motivated? These buildings are 100% 'safe' from plundering.

- etc, etc...
There is nothing wrong/predatory about plundering other players daily, nor is it bullying/evil behavior to routinely hit the same player/s on a daily basis. If you want to leave all your gak open and free for anyone to collect, then don't cry when plunderers accept your offer of "free stuff!"

 

[Paladiac the Pure]

Maybe the thing to do today, with the Winter Quest "Win some (4 to 16) battles" is to take advantage of this to earn your stars by doing battles ONLY with the neighborhood (perhaps even do more that needed, say double or triple the number the quest asks) and plunder every single one you can, no matter how much or little you can, and determine the result. Is the defensive army AI truly helping or hindering the battle, and on average, what are you able to plunder and how many of those neighbors are plunderable. Make this a scientific experiment for your own personal information.

 

[Groovy Prof]

...or just maybe, you can STOP projecting your feelings onto others?
People are too damn soft nowadays, and go out of their way to find something offensive/'ist/ism' in everything.

If a player is being plundered on a regular basis, then instead of crying about how evil/unfair the game & other players are, take a moment for some inward reflection;
- is my city under leveled for my era? (ie: why is your HMA city full of BA/IA goods with 0 EMA/HMA goods buildings?)

- am I leaving my finished productions uncollected for hours/days at a time?
If you can't keep say 8hr pick-ups, then go for a 24hr production that you can time to finish when you KNOW you will be able to play.

- do I have event buildings such as Olympic Treasury/Gov's Villa/etc... that only produce goods once they're motivated? These buildings are 100% 'safe' from plundering.

- etc, etc...
There is nothing wrong/predatory about plundering other players daily, nor is it bullying/evil behavior to routinely hit the same player/s on a daily basis. If you want to leave all your gak open and free for anyone to collect, then don't cry when plunderers accept your offer of "free stuff!"

Once again I am not bleating about being plundered or that it is not part of the game! Of course you expect to be hit every now and then.
So please stop with the silly comments about plundering.
As for your inward reflection...there is not much to reflect on when a player who has 10 million points + and an attack of 300%+ attacks a player who hasn't even got 100k points yet. And before you say he should put up his defensive army or that he should build a defensive GB and have it levelled up to level 10 or more when he hasn't even had time to get the BP's for it....please take a moment to just think! Plus not all players play 24/7 or have the time to repeatedly collect the instant something is produced...the real world has other demands on our time.
I have no problem with people in roughly the same power band attacking each other, but if you attack a player who is 100 times lower than your power repeatedly, who hasn't had time to build their city up, don't pretend it is not bullying or throwing your weight around.
And yes that sort of behaviour does put players off and make them think what's the point....But that is not the point of this thread!

I asked the question about the defensive AI, as it is perfectly reasonable to expect the same level of AI as is used at moderately higher levels...I've only just got past Industrial era and have experienced better AI, so I surmise there maybe even better A! to come at higher ages....

 

[Emberguard]

there is not much to reflect on when a player who has 10 million points + and an attack of 300%+ attacks a player who hasn't even got 100k points yet.

Ranking Points are meaningless for determining how strong your city is as it reflects past actions more so then your actual strength. If you deleted absolutely everything from your city including inventory and unattached troops you could still have millions of points.

I have no problem with people in roughly the same power band attacking each other, but if you attack a player who is 100 times lower than your power repeatedly, who hasn't had time to build their city up, don't pretend it is not bullying or throwing your weight around.

I don't know of any city based war game where your opponent would wait for you to catch up if you're slower at developing your city, army or resources. It's war. It's strategy based. You're meant to use whatever's at your disposal to get the upper hand including hindering your opponents progress

I asked the question about the defensive AI, as it is perfectly reasonable to expect the same level of AI as is used at moderately higher levels...I've only just got past Industrial era and have experienced better AI, so I surmise there maybe even better A! to come at higher ages....

Probably the biggest problem with defending isn't the AI itself, it's getting players to actually develop their defense. If everyone had a reasonable defensive army + stats it would help protect the weakest in the hood through herd immunity. If only 1 or 2 players in a neighbourhood bother with a proper defense the plunderers can just go through the entire hood with little or no losses. If everyone puts up decent resistance then all but the toughest plunderers would have to stop much sooner to recover from the losses

 

[Knight of ICE]

I asked the question about the defensive AI, as it is perfectly reasonable to expect the same level of AI as is used at moderately higher levels...I've only just got past Industrial era and have experienced better AI, so I surmise there maybe even better A! to come at higher ages....

And that is where you are totally wrong. The AI is the same for every age. It does not get better or worse.

 

[Groovy Prof]

I use a combination of relevant units and rogues in my battles.
I am at progressive era and have experienced the AI both on the world map and in expedition, not targeting my rogues first.
Maybe this is due to my era and the era I am battling against...but think if available elsewhere why not as the defensive AI as well?

Defences are all well and good but it is the defensive AI that determines how your defensive units behave. To have it making your units defend in such a sub par manner seems ridiculous when there are blatantly better AI systems at work elsewhere in the game.

As to the 'catch up' not expecting it either. But I'm sure we have all encountered the player that has a city, the units, the attacking power commensurate with their ranking points of millions attacking the small sub par, less than 100k players. To me these easy wins, no brainers, auto wins, to steal goods or whatever, do not formulate a challenge, and are to a certain degree, beneath me. But to those who need to do them every day and incessantly it is a form of bullying. To those who take pleasure and gratification from doing it, it is bullying.

In sports you don't seek out lesser players to compete with, you take on those at the same standard and preferably better, in order to improve your own game.
In chess or bridge, the idea of a ranked player playing against a beginner is just not done, bordering on the abhorrent unless for teaching purposes.
Fighters do not challenge other fighters of lighter weight classes or of lower ability unless they have to in order that they fight the top fighters....or for money.
Premier league clubs do not relish the games against conference league teams as it poses no real challenge, and is viewed more as training.
In society the strong, bigger, older person beating up the smaller, weaker, younger persons is by definition bullying. Hence we have laws and a moral code against it.