Arctic Orangery is not good enough!

[DeletedUser4800]

The attacking bonus percentage is just way too small, that even at level 10 it almost never activates and mind you, you need same era units for it to actually happen in the first place. At level 10 you basically have 7% percent(rounded up) for a unit to strike with 150% damage. This means if a unit attacked 100 times in a battle, it would on average only strike with the critical strike 7 times out of 100.

This is absurd levels of low amount, considering most units last at best 3 turns before they die or win, the chances of a unit getting a critical strike in 3(max) turns is literally less than 0.3%.

My suggestion is that at level 10 a percentage of 17% is reached, then from that level on each level adds 0.5% chance.

Level 1 - 2%
Level 2 - 3%
Level 3 - 4%
Level 4 - 5%
Level 5 - 7%
Level 6 - 9%
Level 7 - 11%
Level 8 - 13%
Level 9 15%
Level 10 - 17%

 

[DeletedUser12400]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/SQIjbSW.png[/IMG] ​

What about forge points?

 

[DeletedUser]

It's not amazing at level 10, but I'd much rather have a level 60 AO than a level 60 cape.

 

[DeletedUser100065]

Don't build it then. Problem solved.

 

[DeletedUser4800]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/SQIjbSW.png[/IMG] ​

What about forge points?

On par with CDM in terms of efficiency considering its 7x7, compared to 6x6. But the military bonus of CDM is so much better, while Arctic Orangery is crap!

 

[DeletedUser96901]

it is good
other GB should be balanced first

and I am against the overpowering that is suggested here
the GB shouldn't be another game-breaker
it should only make the fights a little be easier (and give FP)

On par with CDM in terms of efficiency considering its 7x7, compared to 6x6. But the military bonus of CDM is so much better, while Arctic Orangery is crap!

--->

Don't build it then. Problem solved.

It's not amazing at level 10, but I'd much rather have a level 60 AO than a level 60 cape.

my goal:
both on level 100

 

[DeletedUser4800]

It's not amazing at level 10, but I'd much rather have a level 60 AO than a level 60 cape.

Well then get ready to lose all your battles then! 150% damage is not even that much, and even at level 60 your chance is bellow 50%, considering units on the battlefield can hit at MAX 3 times, on average two times, its not that great.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well then get ready to lose all your battles then! 150% damage is not even that much, and even at level 60 your chance is bellow 50%, considering units on the battlefield can hit at MAX 3 times, on average two times, its not that great.

Do you lose all your battles? Is that why you think AO needs to be better?

 

[Greywolf]

The AO crit bonus has a limited impact on battles, at least it has for me. With or without crits I need 2 hits to kill most enemy units. Which means I often gain little benefit when I do get crits. Crits can be useful when fighting units that take more than 2 hits to kill like BF, because then it often takes 1 shot less to kill them. But even then between 25% and 50% of all the crits are useless, because they occur on the kill shot (which would have killed the unit without the crit).

So for the crit bonus alone I wouldn't recommend building an AO for most players. But combined with the daily FP's it is a good GB, especially for the Artic players with high attack bonuses. No need to buff the AO in my opinion.

 

[DeletedUser16126]

At level 10 the critical kicks in at least once per fight.
To me that's not too low. On Battle fortress you need only 3 attacks when critical hit kicks in.
Some units get killed in 1 hit only when Critical hit kicks in.
The earlier a unit gets killed the better.
Also even if the unit gets killed by 2 hits,if it kicks in at the first hit it will damage more and reduce also the units attack power.
I agree the Critical hit has no effect if the unit gets killed in the same amount of turns before the unit moves.
But the second bonus FP's is also already worthwhile from level 10 on. Because then it is at par with filling the same space with Shrines of knowledge.
For me the only issue on orangery is that again with the high ARC boosts, it is easier to level the GB at high levels (from 30 onwards) than for the lower ones. But INNO will never understand how to increase FP's really exponential.

 

[DeletedUser]

For me the only issue on orangery is that again with the high ARC boosts, it is easier to level the GB at high levels (from 30 onwards) than for the lower ones. But INNO will never understand how to increase FP's really exponential.

I think that is the intent.

To my knowledge, the reason the crit % chance is so low at early levels is to give AO room to grow at a steady rate indefinitely (unlike CDM, which is almost not even worth leveling above 10)

 

[DeletedUser16126]

I think that is the intent.

To my knowledge, the reason the crit % chance is so low at early levels is to give AO room to grow at a steady rate indefinitely (unlike CDM, which is almost not even worth leveling above 10)

Can you indicate which reasoning would clarify why it is the intent that it takes at least a week to level the first levels, and after level 30 it is intended that you can level it almost daily. I even saw people leveling it a few times in a single day.
This just gives the players that are FP-pushing a legalized way to hide their pushing accounts.
Because they only need their pushers at low levels, and INNO seems to be too lazy to investigate these situations.

 

[DeletedUser4800]

The AO crit bonus has a limited impact on battles, at least it has for me. With or without crits I need 2 hits to kill most enemy units. Which means I often gain little benefit when I do get crits. Crits can be useful when fighting units that take more than 2 hits to kill like BF, because then it often takes 1 shot less to kill them. But even then between 25% and 50% of all the crits are useless, because they occur on the kill shot (which would have killed the unit without the crit).

So for the crit bonus alone I wouldn't recommend building an AO for most players. But combined with the daily FP's it is a good GB, especially for the Artic players with high attack bonuses. No need to buff the AO in my opinion.

Its a 7x7 arctic era GB. you just said yourself that its almost useless for the critical bonus it provides, so that means its only useful for the FP, which is that case is as effective as CDM and less effective than shrines. It better to place shrines on that space, rather than this GB.

That is not to mention the crit only triggers on SAME AGE units, so 150% bonus doesn't even one shot units, units attack max 3 times, on average two times, so overall 8 units in your army has a combined change of triggering a crit of 1.5 times, so essentially out of 16 attacks, the critical will trigger 1 to 2 times and only on same age units and it won't even one shot them!

Even at 115% bonus attacks I have, it doesn't one shot ANY unit!

 

[DeletedUser]

Can you indicate which reasoning would clarify why it is the intent that it takes at least a week to level the first levels, and after level 30 it is intended that you can level it almost daily. I even saw people leveling it a few times in a single day.
This just gives the players that are FP-pushing a legalized way to hide their pushing accounts.
Because they only need their pushers at low levels, and INNO seems to be too lazy to investigate these situations.

Yes, I'll be happy to can clarify for you: because that's not the case.

You only think it's true because there's a strong correlation between having a high level Arc and having a level 30+ Arctic Orangery. Players with a high level Arc have more FP income, and therefore can level their AO more quickly.

Let's assume two people each make 100 FP daily, and only use collections FP to level their AO. Both players are able to get someone to lock 1st 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th at cost (first case: no arc, second case: 90% arc).

Level 1 -> 10 (9 levels)
cost: 5370
contribution rewards: 980
Net cost (without Arcs): 4390
Net cost (with Arcs): 3508
Days required: 44 (without Arcs), 36 (with Arcs)

Level 30->39 (9 levels)
cost: 20382
contribution rewards: 8870
Net cost (without Arcs): 11512
Net cost (with Arcs): 3529
Days required: 116 (without Arcs), 36 (with Arcs)

 

[DeletedUser16126]

@Huscarl, if you take into account the FP's gained by the orangery, then the benefit of the higher levels increases, and the time reduces.
At higher levels the number of BP's and medals increase so people are also more keen to pay a bonus for it, much more than on lower levels where these rewards doesn't count at all.
As your calculation already shows... even be able to increase the level at the same speed as low levels doesn't look ballanced to me.

 

[Addonexus]

For me the only issue on orangery is that again with the high ARC boosts, it is easier to level the GB at high levels (from 30 onwards) than for the lower ones. But INNO will never understand how to increase FP's really exponential.

You are wrong here, inno has changed the costs per level even with high arcs. there are no easy levels like on the lower age gbs. each level costs at least 300FPs + high arcs support, while at level 100 it will cost you 5000FPs plus support of level 80 arcs for just one level.

 

[DeletedUser109385]

Artic Orangery should be improved, maybe the critical hits can be the same but the critical hits should be for units of the same age or HIGHER.

 

[LastWarrior]

It ok, I ejoy it when the little sword pops up and a unit dissapears

 

[DeletedUser]

@Huscarl, if you take into account the FP's gained by the orangery, then the benefit of the higher levels increases, and the time reduces.
At higher levels the number of BP's and medals increase so people are also more keen to pay a bonus for it, much more than on lower levels where these rewards doesn't count at all.
As your calculation already shows... even be able to increase the level at the same speed as low levels doesn't look ballanced to me.

I disagree that medals/BPs are an incentive for people with high level Arcs. People with high level arcs tend to have an unlimited supply of medals & blueprints for any GB that isn't brand new - and they're the only ones who are ever going to pay an 80-90% premium on a GB.

The FPs gained by orangery increases linearly, so it's the same FP collection increase for leveling AO from 7 to 8 as it is from 37 to 38.

Can you explain why it's "unbalanced" to be have the capability to level a GB as quickly at mid-levels (like 30) as at low levels (like 8)?

 

[DeletedUser4800]

Why even have the forums if no feedback is ever taken. I mean its easy, compared to other buildings that give military bonus, this bonus is pathetic. Yes the FP bonus is very good, but in terms of space efficiency its comparable to CDM for FP. In terms of military boost it looses badly. Its for same era units, extremely low chance and the shot doesn't even one shot units.

By my calculations you need to have 120% bonus damage in order to one shot units at the guild expedition map and units which are lower in defensive bonus and HP.