Anyone else hate battles?

[DeletedUser]

You think that will help mate? Some other company is doing other worlds and not Inno? Same thing everywhere mate

 

[DeletedUser]

No one adequate will ever answer to any of my statements
First because they will say that they didn't see a question, and second thing is that they know all this is true

Completed Level 3 GE and got one jade relic in whole 3 levels LOL And for months the same LOL

 

[DeletedUser110195]

I'm colonial pressing industrial in my main world(been playing since the 2nd of December 2016)I don't know how things will change at the high end ages, but gold relics giving 100 fp, 10 rogues? They may not come along often but when they do it's a huge windfall. If you're getting 1 jade per week, that sounds pretty good to me. As for the rest of it I haven't stepped into GvG yet and as stated, not even close to AF, however as the way units work is starting to change, it appears to become easier, not harder. I use rogues and whatever regular unit is best for taking out both waves, most times my losses are minimal. I've found GE very worth doing, perhaps if you buy diamonds in large quantities it isn't.

 

[DeletedUser110131]

No one adequate will ever answer to any of my statements

Can't argue with that. You've already dismissed Augustavian as "inadequate", and I'm not about to claim that I'm any more adequate. Undoubtedly, the very fact that we're answering means that we're "inadequate", in your view. Of course, you may want to look up the word; it may not mean what you think it does.

First because they will say that they didn't see a question, and second thing is that they know all this is true

Well, I didn't see a question, and neither did anyone else. There was only a bunch of statements, consisting of some bragging, one tiny grain of truth, and a lot of confused whining.

I can speak from experience that FoE is going worse and worse by each update. This used to be fun and relaxing game. But now Inno only thinks of more ways to cost you real money, nothing else.

That seems to be the general consensus, for the very good reason that it's absolutely true. The developers are ignoring the basics, in favor of cosmetics, and working very hard to squeeze more money out of an unchanged and buggy basic game, instead of improving the game so that it's worth more. So, hard to disagree with you, there.

2. I have 169 attack /106 defence boost when attacking and I can't finish level 3 GE fighting ) When I contacted support, some smartass asked me if I know that units have a terrain boost. LOL I asked him if he is insulting me or he is just plain stupid

Well, I might have asked the same thing, given that you think 169/106 is remarkably high for AF, and that your failure to win is a bug. The GE is hard for everyone. If you want to do better, then you must get better.

3. GE worth doing? In my opinion no. My guild is keeping records what we have won each week... Always the same pattern... So procentage that Inno speaks about is just plain simple: crap. Leveling ToR? Don't be silly guys...

The percentages Inno is giving are undoubtedly accurate. They have nothing to gain by lying about them, and setting up a decent RNG is easy enough. Again, it's the same for everyone. Last, but not least, I have no idea how you expect to get lots of good relics, if you can't be bothered to level up ToR.

4. GvG fighting. It used to be about procentage. But not anymore. You ALWAYS get different from what you need/want.

Yet again, it's the same for everyone. Either that, or Inno is out to get you and your guild specifically. Is that your theory?

You come off as some tween n00b complaining that the game is too hard.

 

[DeletedUser]

Can't argue with that. You've already dismissed Augustavian as "inadequate", and I'm not about to claim that I'm any more adequate. Undoubtedly, the very fact that we're answering means that we're "inadequate", in your view. Of course, you may want to look up the word; it may not mean what you think it does.

By adequate I ment someone that is actually involved in creating the game. Nevertheless all opinions are more than welcome

Well, I didn't see a question, and neither did anyone else. There was only a bunch of statements, consisting of some bragging, one tiny grain of truth, and a lot of confused whining.

People can comment on statements, as you did. Bragging? What you call bragging I call facts. You don't think it's important to mention a few basic facts that are important for the things that I wrote? I'm sorry bud, but apparently you have an issue with that... I don't

That seems to be the general consensus, for the very good reason that it's absolutely true. The developers are ignoring the basics, in favor of cosmetics, and working very hard to squeeze more money out of an unchanged and buggy basic game, instead of improving the game so that it's worth more. So, hard to disagree with you, there.

Agreed. That was my point.

The percentages Inno is giving are undoubtedly accurate. They have nothing to gain by lying about them, and setting up a decent RNG is easy enough. Again, it's the same for everyone. Last, but not least, I have no idea how you expect to get lots of good relics, if you can't be bothered to level up ToR.

Undoubtedly? How can you claim it so surly? Are you a developer or something? It all comes down to a simple math. Level 11 ToR. You calculate it for yourself mate.

Yet again, it's the same for everyone. Either that, or Inno is out to get you and your guild specifically. Is that your theory?

Of course Inno is not after my guild only, who said that? I was complaining about the changes in the game that were made over some period of time. Where did you got lost mate? LOL

You come off as some tween n00b complaining that the game is too hard.

No I was complaining that the game is not fair in some things

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm colonial pressing industrial in my main world(been playing since the 2nd of December 2016)I don't know how things will change at the high end ages, but gold relics giving 100 fp, 10 rogues? They may not come along often but when they do it's a huge windfall. If you're getting 1 jade per week, that sounds pretty good to me. As for the rest of it I haven't stepped into GvG yet and as stated, not even close to AF, however as the way units work is starting to change, it appears to become easier, not harder. I use rogues and whatever regular unit is best for taking out both waves, most times my losses are minimal. I've found GE very worth doing, perhaps if you buy diamonds in large quantities it isn't.

Yes, I can't disagree with you on that... A while back we didn't have GE, and we had a way less events than these days But injustice pushes my buttons )

 

[DeletedUser110131]

By adequate I ment someone that is actually involved in creating the game.

Yes. Only that's not what "adequate" means, is it?

You don't think it's important to mention a few basic facts that are important for the things that I wrote?

Only they're not, really. Your ranking is completely irrelevant. Your number of fights and boosts aren't really relevant, either. The relevant fact is that you keep loosing, and you don't like it. That makes you look like a n00b, and makes me doubt your claims about rank and number of fights.

Undoubtedly? How can you claim it so surly? Are you a developer or something? It all comes down to a simple math. Level 11 ToR. You calculate it for yourself mate.

I'm a developer and programmer, yes, though not a game developer. I've also managed to master simple math. There are two factors that may cause your perception:

• We only notice what stands out. Even when we compare notes or make lists, what stands out is more likely to be mentioned. For most, "bad" stands out even more than "good".
• In randomness, there will always be clusters. If you play long enough, it will even out, but the experience of the clusters won't; you'll spend most of the time in one streak or another. Among so many guilds, there will even be entire guilds having unlucky streaks.

Of course, it's true that Inno has introduced a lot of lousy rewards among the relics, probably to address some imbalance. Possibly, they believed some of those rewards would become popular; they do tend to overestimate the value of pretty pictures. None of this affects whether the probabilities they give are accurate, though, nor change the fact that it's the same for everyone.

A legitimate complaint is that Inno seems to be moving the game toward gradually greater randomness. To much similarity with roulette may not be good for a strategy game. This complaint has nothing to do with GE battle, unfairness, or faulty RNGs, though.

No I was complaining that the game is not fair in some things

Only, if it's the same for everyone, it is fair. The only way it can be unfair, is if someone is treated differently. Since you're on record as not believing you've been singled out to be picked on, you should also be able to realize that the game isn't unfair.

The only unique thing about you that will affect the game, is how you play it. Other than random clusters of events, it's the only thing that can cause the game to be particularly troublesome for you. If you don't think it's randomness, then you need to play differently. If you think it's randomness, you need to be patient. If you think it's unfairness, you need to think again.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes. Only that's not what "adequate" means, is it?

To me yes it does. Your point of view is only your personal opinion.

Only they're not, really. Your ranking is completely irrelevant. Your number of fights and boosts aren't really relevant, either. The relevant fact is that you keep loosing, and you don't like it. That makes you look like a n00b, and makes me doubt your claims about rank and number of fights.

Yes those facts are relevant. The number of fights done, the experience gained over the years, fighting boost, those are all relevant facts when someone is complaining about fighting. Are number of coins or supplies relevant information to you? LOL

I'm a developer and programmer, yes, though not a game developer. I've also managed to master simple math. There are two factors that may cause your perception:

• We only notice what stands out. Even when we compare notes or make lists, what stands out is more likely to be mentioned. For most, "bad" stands out even more than "good".
• In randomness, there will always be clusters. If you play long enough, it will even out, but the experience of the clusters won't; you'll spend most of the time in one streak or another. Among so many guilds, there will even be entire guilds having unlucky streaks.

Of course, it's true that Inno has introduced a lot of lousy rewards among the relics, probably to address some imbalance. Possibly, they believed some of those rewards would become popular; they do tend to overestimate the value of pretty pictures. None of this affects whether the probabilities they give are accurate, though, nor change the fact that it's the same for everyone.

I do not care or did I ask you what you are mate. I'm talking about a developer of THIS GAME. Your education is irrelevant here. And to me it looks like you haven't mastered math because obviously you can't calculate a simple task I put up. And I am talking abouth math not philosophical approach on the matter. Leave the schooling for your closest ones.

Only, if it's the same for everyone, it is fair. The only way it can be unfair, is if someone is treated differently. Since you're on record as not believing you've been singled out to be picked on, you should also be able to realize that the game isn't unfair.

I see you have a huge issues with math and reading both. Can't help you with that

The only unique thing about you that will affect the game, is how you play it. Other than random clusters of events, it's the only thing that can cause the game to be particularly troublesome for you. If you don't think it's randomness, then you need to play differently. If you think it's randomness, you need to be patient. If you think it's unfairness, you need to think again.

Oh please do enlighten me What are you talking about? Be patient? Think it again? LOL
Again, please read slowly... s l o w l y... maybe you will get it eventually

 

[DeletedUser110131]

To me yes it does. Your point of view is only your personal opinion.

You're one of those, are you? The attitude that your words mean what you think they mean is fine, but only so long as you don't expect to be understood. Language is a collaborative product, and your private language doesn't work outside of your head. In fact, since Wittgenstein, there's pretty much a consensus among linguists, psychologists, psychiatrists and philosophers that private languages don't even work inside the head.

Yes those facts are relevant.

No, they're not. You're complaining about loosing. The fact of your loosing isn't changed by your stats. You believe that the stats are relevant, because you believe that the fact that you're loosing means that the game is broken. That's a false assumption, no matter what your stats are. You're not the only player; if the game works for others, it works for you. Others are winning; there's no reason why you should be among them, regardless of your stats.

I do not care or did I ask you what you are mate.

Yes, you did ask. Specifically, you wrote "Are you a developer or something?" You may believe that you were more specific, however, in fact, you weren't. If you want to be understood, you need to use the language in an adequate way. Leaving it up to others to read your mind simply doesn't work.

My background is relevant only because it means that I know what issues must be dealt with in order to generate random results with the correct probabilities. It's not very difficult, and there's no reason to think that Inno has failed at it. Certainly, if they had, the problem would have been there since the start of the game, rather than being the result of more recent changes; the code for core functions like this is rarely changed.

I see you have a huge issues with math and reading both

My reading is fine, as is my math. The problem is your failure to understand basic concepts. In a game or contest, fair conditions are equal conditions, even when you lose.

Be patient? Think it again?

If it's a matter of randomness, then, yes, the only cure is patience. It's a well known fact that you may have missed, due to your language issues. Also, if you believe that you're being treated unfairly, even if you're treated exactly like all others, then, yes, you need to think again. That's a well known fact, as well.

Given your language difficulties, there's obviously a possibility that you're trying to express something different from what your sentences mean in English. Maybe you're attempting to make a more specific complaint, rather than general whining. Perhaps you disagree with the balancing of the game, and have good reason for why fighting should be better rewarded, and why battles in AF should be easier for everyone; reasons that take into account that difficult doesn't equal unfair, and that your defeats don't have any particular significance to anyone other than you. If so, I recommend that you use a dictionary, learn the English language, which is distinctively different from your private babble, and try again, using words in their common meaning.

I believe you'll find that it makes life easier in a multitude of ways.

 

[DeletedUser]

You're one of those, are you? The attitude that your words mean what you think they mean is fine, but only so long as you don't expect to be understood. Language is a collaborative product, and your private language doesn't work outside of your head. In fact, since Wittgenstein, there's pretty much a consensus among linguists, psychologists, psychiatrists and philosophers that private languages don't even work inside the head.

Apparently you don't even understand yourself, so I don't expect you to understand me or anyone else
Instead of reading what I wrote in the first post you are jabbering about some rubbish that you picked up during your therapy

No, they're not. You're complaining about loosing. The fact of your loosing isn't changed by your stats. You believe that the stats are relevant, because you believe that the fact that you're loosing means that the game is broken. That's a false assumption, no matter what your stats are. You're not the only player; if the game works for others, it works for you. Others are winning; there's no reason why you should be among them, regardless of your stats.

Yes they are relevant. In you brain they are not. Can't help you with that. And most certain I am not here to convince you in anything else. And again, like I said a few times before, and you obviously can't comprehend: It's a matter of math.

Yes, you did ask. Specifically, you wrote "Are you a developer or something?" You may believe that you were more specific, however, in fact, you weren't. If you want to be understood, you need to use the language in an adequate way. Leaving it up to others to read your mind simply doesn't work.

No I did not ask. Apparently you read what you want and in the way you want it. Your lack of plain comprehension is not something you can cure here. Again (and maybe you will finally read it this time) I'm talking about a developer of THIS GAME. And the obvious need to mention that you are a developer, without anyone asking you, only proves your deficiency. It seems you have a big Napoleon complex that needs to be cured.

My reading is fine, as is my math. The problem is your failure to understand basic concepts. In a game or contest, fair conditions are equal conditions, even when you loose.

Your reading or understanding of what I wrote is not fine. Given your language difficulties, and a lack of comprehension, it's certain that you're trying to express something that you don't even understand yourself. But I truly beleve your English is your least problem...

If it's a matter of randomness, then, yes, the only cure is patience. It's a well known fact that you may have missed, due to your language issues. Also, if you believe that you're being treated unfairly, even if you're treated exactly like all others, then, yes, you need to think again. That's a well known fact, as well.

That is not a fact. Only your personal opinion. If you say that something is a fact, it doesn't mean it is.

And I'm sorry to say this, but I do not have any reassuring words for you. What goes on inside your head has a medical term. Your need to "raise" yourself is pathetic. Apparently you want to compensate your lack of success in real life here

 

[DeletedUser109966]

Time out eh??... agree to disagree and call it a draw.

Thalka97, you insult too much when arguing... not attractive.

Einrikr: I hate to say this but, it's losing not loosing... loose is a trait, to my shame, I like to see in the women I meet on a Friday night

 

[DeletedUser110131]

I'm talking about a developer of THIS GAME.

So, you have trouble with the concept of time, as well? Yes, you've specified your question, now. Back then, when I replied, you hadn't. I answered the question you had asked, not the question you would later claim to have meant to ask. You know, just because you've forgotten what happened 30 seconds ago, doesn't mean that it didn't happen, and just because we remember something now, doesn't mean that we remembered it before it happened. There's no way for anyone to answer a question that you will later claim to have meant to ask.

Wow! I don't think I've ever had to explain that to anyone before.

That is not a fact. Only your personal opinion.

Of course. Just like it's my "personal opinion" that "adequate" isn't a synonym for "Inno employee".

 

[DeletedUser110131]

it's losing not loosing

Not my worst typo/misspelling ever. In fact, it doesn't even makes the top hundred list. Thanks for catching it, though.

Funny thing, us having the same taste in women!

 

[TheKingOfKool]

LOL - All that Back & Forth and Round & Round made me dizzy!

 

[DeletedUser110433]

What do you mean by no advantage with 90% att/def bonus?

90% is a MUST HAVE from developers point of view in AF, so anything below that is your own fault from their perspective. And so, most (not saying all) battles have crazy % with higher than that for AF battles. With that 90% you don`t have advantageous good setting on battlefield, just a average-normal setting, because enemies have similar %.

 

[DeletedUser653]

Apparently you don't even understand yourself, so I don't expect you to understand me or anyone else
Instead of reading what I wrote in the first post you are jabbering about some rubbish that you picked up during your therapy

Yes they are relevant. In you brain they are not. ......

........... It seems you have a big Napoleon complex that needs to be cured.

......................... it's certain that you're trying to express something that you don't even understand yourself. But I truly beleve your English is your least problem...

And I'm sorry to say this, but I do not have any reassuring words for you. What goes on inside your head has a medical term. Your need to "raise" yourself is pathetic. Apparently you want to compensate your lack of success in real life here

Sorry Thekla, you are not able to discuss and talk about an issue without resorting to insults to hide your lack of ability to logically argue your point. You will get no respect from seasoned players or i suspect new players with posts like you have done. Please use more factual evidence in future, I have no respect for any player posting the insults and rubbish which you post. Please think before posting some of the insults and rubbish which you posted.

Re GE and how hard it is:
In a normal week my guild wins GE by miles (33 golds and alas 1 silver) and over 50% of my guild does L4 every single week, 95% does L2. In a special week when we have real hard opponents we get about 75% to the end of L4 and 90% to L3. Is it hard, yes its very hard. we have crib sheets on each fight detailing troops facing and troop to use depending on attack %. Maybe this is the problem for you that you are not approaching GE thinking about it as a guild and thus all players helping all other players.
PS: my GE attack is 124% and 94% defence which is not massive and while i do not complete L4 every week i do complete it given time away from work.

 

[DeletedUser4800]

Not everyone is getting the point here. Winning GE(2nd and 3rd map) or taking continent area is very hard through auto battle even with big boosts in offensive power. In order to win more of the time you need to manually do battles, which for a whole continent map can take up to an hour.

This is very bad because manual battles are boring, the fighting in this game is UNBALANCED, NO FUN, ABSURDLY DIFFICULT. Its unbalanced because the devs are complete garbage on balancing, clearly not game developers, but rather artists and coders, no real game directors and producers.

Its not fun because again it's not balanced, it's not strategic, it's not consistent in the way battles shape out.

Its absurdly difficult these days, because again Inno has a garbage balancing style, where 10 people have 200% offense attack power, so Inno make it ultra hard for EVERYONE, for the rest of the 99.990 people!

Again this game fighting is not heroes of might and magic or similar games, its crap, its NOT fun, its imbalanced, units are boring and uninteresting. Its based on a ridiculous rock-paper-scissor system which NO RTS/TBS GAME has ever done since the early 90's!!!!!

 

[DeletedUser110195]

Not everyone is getting the point here. Winning GE(2nd and 3rd map) or taking continent area is very hard through auto battle even with big boosts in offensive power. In order to win more of the time you need to manually do battles, which for a whole continent map can take up to an hour.

This is very bad because manual battles are boring, the fighting in this game is UNBALANCED, NO FUN, ABSURDLY DIFFICULT. Its unbalanced because the devs are complete garbage on balancing, clearly not game developers, but rather artists and coders, no real game directors and producers.

Its not fun because again it's not balanced, it's not strategic, it's not consistent in the way battles shape out.

Its absurdly difficult these days, because again Inno has a garbage balancing style, where 10 people have 200% offense attack power, so Inno make it ultra hard for EVERYONE, for the rest of the 99.990 people!

Again this game fighting is not heroes of might and magic or similar games, its crap, its NOT fun, its imbalanced, units are boring and uninteresting. Its based on a ridiculous rock-paper-scissor system which NO RTS/TBS GAME has ever done since the early 90's!!!!!

If you can't tolerate doing battles manually, then that's your problem. Personally I enjoy setting up my attack so that I walk away without a scratch. Autobattle is exactly how it should be, an AI that's not good at winning. That is one area where making it quicker is NOT the way to go because that would simply play the game for you if your AI was competent but the GE defending AI was not.

And if your neighbors cannot be defended against due to offensive attack/defense bonuses, then run city shield until your defensive attack/defense bonuses are up to the task.

 

[DeletedUser110131]

@SlickR

So, what I'm getting is that, in your mind, a well balanced game is a game where you can do well, without putting in any effort whatsoever. That's a pretty curious definition. Most would say that you're describing a very poorly balanced game. You may want to consider acquiring some crayons and a coloring book for small children. That might be "balanced" enough for you.

Fighting manually is supposed to be an advantage. What's questionable is that there is an option of auto-battle at all; it makes it possible for players to succeed without any mastery of a basic game element. I suspect the main purpose is to allow players to conclude already won battles, without having to spend more time on them. The intended option for those who don't like fighting is negotiation. With better auto-battle, both of these main options would become meaningless, which would be truly bad balancing.

When you fight manually, there's very little random about the outcome. In fact, it's almost painfully predictable. I can usually tell how many troops I will loose in a battle, before I make the first move. It's also not very hard. Winning nearly every contest in Rock, Paper, Scissors is impossible, yet there are a lot of players winning nearly every battle in FoE. In other words, there's no similarity between the two games. The randomness you're experiencing comes from you own gaming style.

Of course the battle opponents need to be the same for everyone, regardless of their boosts. If battles were adapted to minimize the effect of the players weaknesses, then there would be no rewards for the players strengths. Someone spending no FPs on military technology, no FPs on military GBs, and no effort to learn how his two spearfighters work, would still be able to fight through GE level IV in AF. On auto-battle. Now, that would be seriously bad balancing!

If your ideal for strategy gaming is Heroes of Might and Magic, I guess that explains why you find the troop types in FoE boring, since they completely lack magical abilities. If the presence of magic is vital for your entertainment, you may want to find another game.

The technological platforms of HMM and FoE are also different. While the FoE client is restricted by the limitations of browsers, bandwidth, the Flash platform, or, worse, mobile platforms, HMM can stuff your device with a large amount of data, to be near instantly loaded from disc on demand, utilize as much RAM as is available on your HW, and gorge itself on CPU access. Finally, the development strategies are diametrical opposites. While HMM develops a new, stand-alone release every few years, FoE is an incrementally developed Web/mobile game. There's no sensible way of comparing the two.

The bottom line, though, is that you're complaining that it's too hard, and I'm complaining that it's too easy. That's balance, right there.

 

[DeletedUser4800]

@SlickR

So, what I'm getting is that, in your mind, a well balanced game is a game where you can do well, without putting in any effort whatsoever. That's a pretty curious definition. Most would say that you're describing a very poorly balanced game. You may want to consider acquiring some crayons and a coloring book for small children. That might be "balanced" enough for you.

Fighting manually is supposed to be an advantage. What's questionable is that there is an option of auto-battle at all; it makes it possible for players to succeed without any mastery of a basic game element. I suspect the main purpose is to allow players to conclude already won battles, without having to spend more time on them. The intended option for those who don't like fighting is negotiation. With better auto-battle, both of these main options would become meaningless, which would be truly bad balancing.

When you fight manually, there's very little random about the outcome. In fact, it's almost painfully predictable. I can usually tell how many troops I will loose in a battle, before I make the first move. It's also not very hard. Winning nearly every contest in Rock, Paper, Scissors is impossible, yet there are a lot of players winning nearly every battle in FoE. In other words, there's no similarity between the two games. The randomness you're experiencing comes from you own gaming style.

Of course the battle opponents need to be the same for everyone, regardless of their boosts. If battles were adapted to minimize the effect of the players weaknesses, then there would be no rewards for the players strengths. Someone spending no FPs on military technology, no FPs on military GBs, and no effort to learn how his two spearfighters work, would still be able to fight through GE level IV in AF. On auto-battle. Now, that would be seriously bad balancing!

If your ideal for strategy gaming is Heroes of Might and Magic, I guess that explains why you find the troop types in FoE boring, since they completely lack magical abilities. If the presence of magic is vital for your entertainment, you may want to find another game.

The technological platforms of HMM and FoE are also different. While the FoE client is restricted by the limitations of browsers, bandwidth, the Flash platform, or, worse, mobile platforms, HMM can stuff your device with a large amount of data, to be near instantly loaded from disc on demand, utilize as much RAM as is available on your HW, and gorge itself on CPU access. Finally, the development strategies are diametrical opposites. While HMM develops a new, stand-alone release every few years, FoE is an incrementally developed Web/mobile game. There's no sensible way of comparing the two.

The bottom line, though, is that you're complaining that it's too hard, and I'm complaining that it's too easy. That's balance, right there.

Wrong!

Battles are boring in FOE, you are a newbie and maybe you haven't got bored yet because you only do several battles per week for a very short time, I've played this game for over 6 years now. Even if the battles were interesting as HOMAM and they are not even slightly close, but even then after 6 years it would get boring.

You've just started playing barely 6 months ago judging by your account, so don't tell me if battles are interesting or not, they are not interesting. And battling in the bronze age is a lot more simpler and fast than in oceanic future, so year your bronze age battles might be cool to you for now, having not done any and with basic, simple units where battles last less than 30 seconds even if you are utter NOOB!!!

So why are we forced to do manual battles, which again can take up to an hour of utter boredom to get 1 province?

And what about those people who haven't played the game for 6 years and don't have 120 attack power like me? Stop with the baseless defense of this boring ass battle that is forced upon us.