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Analysing the real value of Great Buildings

DeletedUser110168

Guys please stop ruining a very very good tread on the value of GB's
There were no complaints for almost 3 weeks before you decided to comment, and this thread has been dead for more than a week anyway, if you are so concerned why didn't you say something earlier?

Mods, is it possible to delete this bickering from the tread and put it in a new tread where they can debate the meaning of scales. many thanks
Well if you look at the context it all DOES relate to calculating the real value of gbs, figuring out the impact of goods etc is an essential calculation when deciding to build gbs like Babel in the end game, or deciding to keep them in the end game :)
 

DeletedUser653

There were no complaints for almost 3 weeks before you decided to comment, and this thread has been dead for more than a week anyway, if you are so concerned why didn't you say something earlier?

General life, this tread gets read by lots and lots of players every single week, many founders send the link to this thread to their players especially new ones who might be thinking of building too many GB's or useless ones. Its a great thread because it makes a player think. Just because players are not commenting does not make a thread a dead one, never make this mistake or you may start thinking half the guides in this section are dead. Believe me this is a live tread for many players who are asked to read it.

Well if you look at the context it all DOES relate to calculating the real value of gbs, figuring out the impact of goods etc is an essential calculation when deciding to build gbs like Babel in the end game, or deciding to keep them in the end game :)

No you two are just bickering over the meaning of words and doing nothing to further this thread by useful debate. Please do not ruin a very good tread which has been read by thousands and might still get read by thousands more. I disagree with many posts on this tread and have debated a few but in a useful way rather then ping ponging messages about the OED meaning of 'scale'. please restrict future posts to constructive debate on the usefulness or not of certain GB's.
many thanks 8-)
 

DeletedUser110168

No you two are just bickering over the meaning of words and doing nothing to further this thread by useful debate.
Once again, no one posted anything for more than a week before you commented xD
I disagree with many posts on this tread and have debated a few but in a useful way rather then ping ponging messages about the OED meaning of 'scale'.
We all have our own definitions of 'useful' :)
please restrict future posts to constructive debate on the usefulness or not of certain GB's.
many thanks 8-)
I will keep posting as I feel necessary to give readers things to think about. But thank you for your concern ;)

You seem to really care about keeping this thread useful, yet since Dec 23 there have been 4 posts (edit:5), half of them yours(edit:60%), and not one of them has actually answered a question posed or furthered the point of this thread. So stemming from your first post yesterday/today, this thread actually became even less helpful.
 
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DeletedUser653

I will resist further comment other then to say many players read this tread and 99% of them will not see the need to post on it, it is a well used thread by many players and yes i do care about it as it makes players think about why they should not build all GB's - for this reason its very useful as a founder to get players to read it.
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
the game offers many kinds of GBs but I’ve been thinking about the the 2 GBs which indirectly have space saving characteristics through boosting your town's daily supply intake: The Lighthouse of Alexandria and the Royal Albert Hall.
How do they free up space?
Our town needs a steady stream of that boring but important commodity: supplies, which are produced mostly by production buildings. Those buildings won in special events, and premium supply buildings, generally provide more supplies per square than the regular kind.



The supply boost effect of the LoA and RAH increases daily supplies your town provides from your current production buildings. Hopefully this means you can reduce the number of supply buildings in your town without reducing your production of daily supplies. If you play it right, the space saved is greater than the space used by your supply boosting GB. Management of your town space is a critical skill you need to have your town running efficiently, especially if you like GE and need a high daily supply of goods to meet the requirement for level 4 negotiations, as you’ll need your space to build those hefty goods buildings.

To get an idea of whether your daily supplies are adequate, make a note of your current supplies inventory and recheck again after a week. Is it going up or down? Demand for supply will go up with each goods buildings, and when you jump eras, the goods buildings of the next era demand more supplies than those from the era you just left.

So the next question is which supply boosting GB is better: the LoA or RAH?
The most obvious difference at first glance is the difference in footprint. RAH covers 42 squares, compared to the LoA’s 16. That’s 26 extra squares for the RAH. Is the extra size worth it?

Let’s look at the efficiency of goods production for these two GBs at level 10. The LoA needs a total of 2720 fps to get to level 10, at which point it produces 19 goods per collection, making for a return of 7 goods per 1000fps invested.
For the RAH, it’s 3860fps to get to level 10, producing 27 goods, making for an identical 7 goods per 1000fps. So the goods return is the same. Given the huge difference in footprint, you’re better off sticking with the LoA insofar as goods are concerned.

What about the supply production boost? At Level 10, the LoA provides a boost of 145% compared to the same level RAH of 200%. However you have to spent 40% more fps to get to L10 on the RAH, for a supplies boost which is 38% higher than the LoA’s (Ie. 38% of 145). Again, with the cost of a bigger footprint.
Also, the RAH provides the boost 75 times per day compared to 40 for the LoA. However, if you only have 5 supply buildings, running at 8 hourly collections, you won't need this extra.
So the question is whether the extra supply percentage boost at level 10 makes the RAH a better supply boost GB after the footprint difference and additional fp cost is taken into account.
Ultimately, in the end, it’s up to you, the player. However, according to my twice yearly survey of the most popular GBs amongst the highest elite players, the LoA easily outranks the RAH, which suggests that the elites feel that the advantage of the RAH isn’t worth its bloated size.
So give that LoA of yours the TLC it deserves. If you find your supplies inventory dropping and have no space for another production building, consider levelling your LoA up.
 
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Vesiger

Monarch
Ultimately, in the end, it’s up to the LoA easily outranks the RAH, which suggests that the elites feel that the advantage of the RAH isn’t worth its bloated size.
So give that LoA of yours the TLC it deserves. If you find your supplies inventory dropping and have no space for another production building, consider levelling your LoA up.
Thanks for this - having finally acquired a complete set of blueprints for the RAH I was wondering what the point of building it was when I already had the Lighthouse. Glad to see I wasn't being totally obtuse!
 

DeletedUser110639

Also, the RAH provides the boost 40 times per day compared to 25 for the LoA. However, if you only have 5 supply buildings, running at 8 hourly collections, you won't need this extra.
I think your numbers are off. LOA gives its boost for the first 40 collections, and RAH for the first 75 collections.

Your point about collections is valid - but it might be worth noting that if you can use the 75 pickups, then RAH increases in value. My question is, do they stack? I mean, they should stack, but it's probably good to be sure before I plop it down :P
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
quite right Qieth, I'll correct the original post. Not sure about the stacking, but if I were to guess I don't think they do.
 

DeletedUser110639

Well, we just need someone with both buildings to check their boost overview. But I'd assume that they do stack.

I'm quite torn. I'm trying to figure out if I should put down a RAH or just build production buildings in tht space instead.

I have a LOA already (level 5), and currently 7 production buildings. I usually run an 8 hour production over night and then 1 hour productions throughout the day. So I definitely burn though my LOA bonus, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to have both, or just make more production buildings in that space instead.
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
There are so many factors to consider, so am not surprised with your 'tornness' ;)
If you are committed to hourly productions throughout the day in the long term, then yes, the RAH's higher collection boosts does make it more enticing. FWIW in my town I only have a premium production building (obtained from GE) as well as a few special production buildings won in events (confectionary, foeberge shop), as they produce more supplies per square, and my level 5 LoA currently suits my needs, with scope to level higher if it doesn't. And my collections are usually 8 hourly, so don't need the additional collections of the RAH.
I guess your options are: a) build the RAH, and decide whether to keep or tear down your LoA (very painful to tear down a GB) b) level up your LoA, or as you say c) build another production building. You could always sell a production building later without too much anguish, compared to a GB.
It's also worth thinking about what your future plans are in regards to choosing your future GBs to plant, and having the space for them.
 

DeletedUser653

I agree the boosts from LOA & RAH do stack, Good post by angleoferraro comparing the two, the only point missed which changes the comparison it that for 95% of players they will have built the LOA long before they get the chance to build the RAH. Therefore a comparision between say a L5 LOA and a unbuilt RAH might be very useful.
Personally I never built the RAH finding that by adding a few more levels to LOA when a bit short was a better use of fps for me (in OA now and my LOA is only L10). Once a player gets to senior ages then most supplies will be coming from event buildings collected on the way up which get levelled up with each age via renovation or 1up kits. The other really big point is if you check out players cities from about CE to OA, there's almost no one with more than 10 supply buildings because as you age they get bigger and bigger hence you need less off them, I think I only have 5 and 1 is the cider store only 3x2.
So I tend to think a RAH is a luxury which will suck up fps and take up a very large space and not be needed as you approach later ages, hence every fp invested in it will be wasted.
 

DeletedUser110639

Yeah, I did end up putting RAH on hold. With LOA and 8 production buildings (1x 8 hour production overnight and 4x 4 hour productions during the day) will eat up all of my LOA charges (and possibly a few more from misc supplies in my city). So for now, I think it'll be fine.

I might still plop down a RAH during my next age (soon to be in Colonial Age), if I have the space and want the boost. But then I'd go back to 1 hour productions instead of 4 hour productions, to use up all of the boosts :)
 

DeletedUser653

wow, 1 hr productions. I only every did short productions back in Iron age when a blacksmith gave more per space than any building in next age if you could get the 5 min build supported, so you would do a few hood fights (no GB's [no rogues], No GE or GvG then) collect some goods and the collect the 5 min build. never needed to build goods buildings as could plunder all you needed.

So I think general advice for anyone is to think about where you want to invest 2500 FP and if thats in a CDM or a Orangery or a cape thats fine. If you think 2500 FP better invested in getting a L10 babel then thats your decision but not one i would support. Only build a GB if you intend to keep it for ever and that it never gets over taken by later standard or premium buildings.

Qieth, if you really can support 1 hour productions long term than maybe for you RAH is useful, but for most players on 8 hours and 24 hours build its not so useful and while does add supplies it takes up a massive space.
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
........ Only build a GB if you intend to keep it for ever and that it never gets over taken by later standard or premium buildings.
.
like the Habitat?
interesting point about building a GB for keeps...or not. I have previously proposed that there may be an argument to build the Hagia during the early eras, and to delete it much later. The happiness is useful for a few eras until one acquires the Alcatraz. The fps produced by the Hagia means that at level 5, it has usually paid for itself in a few hundred days and beyond that the fps are a nice bonus. Then only delete it when more space is needed for better quality latter era GBs.
 

DeletedUser106696

Yeah, I did end up putting RAH on hold. With LOA and 8 production buildings (1x 8 hour production overnight and 4x 4 hour productions during the day) will eat up all of my LOA charges (and possibly a few more from misc supplies in my city). So for now, I think it'll be fine.

I might still plop down a RAH during my next age (soon to be in Colonial Age), if I have the space and want the boost. But then I'd go back to 1 hour productions instead of 4 hour productions, to use up all of the boosts :)

I think there's something missing in the LoA vs RAH debate, and that's the total number of goods produced in town once you hit ME: Both LoA and RAH will produce goods, and for me it's not about which of them produces more... I need both of them to feed my current goods buildings. I built RAH when I was in PME, and for me the benefit was the additional supply of raw materials as well as the additional boost (LoA and RAH boosts do stack up).
Combined with some other goods producing buildings (Babel, St Mark and Dresden) I always had a generous surplus of raw materials (easily enough to trade down for previous age raw materials), and I also never had more that 3 supply buildings. So yes it is bloated, but given that it lives on a single track road, produces raw materials without needing any peeps, and easily doubles the output of all existing supply buildings I feel it rather saves some space, despite its size.
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
If we assess the goods GBs based exclusively on their goods productions without the additional features, the RAH doesn't perform as well as the SMB or RFP when one considers return of goods on fp invested; these 3 GBs are somewhat similar in size. In a past post I observed that the combination of a FoD and Babel generates more goods per total fp invested than the RAH and with a smaller combined footprint.
The tricky bit is that we do need to consider the additional features provided by a goods GB, and in higher eras, the pop boost of the Babel and the happiness of the FoD aren't particularly good.
 
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