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Analysing the real value of Great Buildings

DeletedUser7719

are you replying to me?
Sorry, I probably should of used quotes there (the answer is yes :p). A circus is a premium building which is why I still think the happiness should be able to last until then. The best you can compare it with is two polished trading companies which will give 3600 happiness). That makes the Level 10 Notre Dame at the same level as the CA, so yes, I would say the amount of fp you put into it will become useless by then (in other words, I do agree with you, but I wasn't thinking too hard about it at first :p)
 

DeletedUser3157

This is little something I wrote for my guild about a month ago. Very quick value summary on all GBs:
1) Zeus - Must have GB for anyone who ever does any kind of fighting. Even if it's just couple of map fights occasionally, it is already then worth it. It costs almost nothing goods wise and it is 6 tiles size, almost 3x smaller than any other GB, so having it has very little downside at all.

2) Babel Tower - Having 1 doesn't really hurt you if it's on high level, because of the goods it makes, but the benafit is so minor it is not worth the trouble and time it takes of getting it leveled. But in my PE town, I would prolly take one lvl10 Babel if I could get it like that.

3) Lighthouse - Must have GB for everyone.

4) Colosseum - GBs were released when I was already in CA and by CA that happiness output is sub-par already. Even on lvl10, I would have razed it if not when I got Trading companies in CA, then for sure when getting Water Pumps in InA. I think it's like 95 per tile on lvl10. TC is 75 and 150 polished, WP is 85 and 170 polished.

5) Hagia - Again happiness. Happiness GBs are smth that get outdated. Benafit was too minor, so didn't get one. I think it was like 140 per tile on lvl10, so polished water pump starts beating it. It has a nice 2ndary bonus tho in FPs. Good enough to make me at least consider building it. But decided too much trouble, some extra FPs are not that huge if u are at end of research trees 99% of the time :P

6) Cat of Aachen - Must have GB for hardcore PvPers.

7) St Marks - Must have GB for everyone.

8) Notre Dame - similar to Hagia, but with no useful 2ndary bonus. Most people around that stage choose to build either one or the another. And it is usually Hagia cause it can be get first and gives FPs. Leaving Notrde Dame problaby the least popular GB in the entire game, meaning it is hardest GB to level up as most ppl are ust not ineterested in it. I would have taken it at lvl10 in CA or InA, but razed it in PE. So I didn't go through the trouble of getting it and then getting it leveled knowing soon I will raze it anyways. And like with all happiness GBs, b4 it actually gets to that high lvls it's wasteful, and if takes a while..not good, didn't bother with it. But I considered it in CA yes.

9) Basil - Defense GBs are waste of space for me, they don't really help me make more points. Getting plundered is not really an issue for me and even if it were, defense bonuses won't stop hardcore PvPers from coming through. I think I have addressed quite long in another post why defense GBs are so underpowered compared to offensive GBs. I won't do it again here, so u can just take my word for it :P

10) del Monte - Must have GB for PvPers, prolly the first offensive GB you want to build if you plan to go for all 3 because of the best 2ndary bonus. Highly recommended for even casual fighters because of the great 2ndary bonus(FPs)

11) Dresden Frau - Very underappreaciated GB. Goods is actually a brilliant 2nd bonus which does not age. I built it during CA and my math told it me it's gonna be good in InA, PE and even the age that comes after it. And because goods buildings got so large, it's prolly gonna be worth itself till end of time. Nearly 200 happiness per tile that takes no polish and enough goods per day that 70% of a goods factory makes. Add the 2x2 road reqs in PE, the thousands of population goods factory takes, all the culturals that population takes, and u get that Dresden is much better at producing goods than ur actual goods factory in PE. Oh and it also gives 5k happiness as bonus ;)

12) Deal Castle - it's large, but if u need medals, u can live with it. I had one on lvl10, but razed it reciently. For me that 3k medals per month was no longer big enough number to be worth those 49 tiles just because I have won all the medal expansions and even if we get new ones next age that's gonna cost 20k and 25k medals each, I will have enough medals stock to get em asap. Besides I could make much more from quests than from Deal castle by now. Also gives defense bonus, what can be a boost for some players, keep away some oppurtunists in ur hood perhaps.

13) Capitol - Difficult to decide for sure, it has many different sides. Currently the only real strategy where Capitol is for sure worth itself and great, is if you built 90 kings during the summer event. With other stuff, it is so and so. U can make some minor points profit with it by getting some more supplies. But that comes at the cost of having very one-diamentional collect(almost no coins, way too many supplies). there might come different startegies in future though where Capitol will be great, I can already think of what they can be like. Right now it might be worth also for some ppl really struggling with space and population to get military and who really don't care about how much coins or whatever they collect.

14) RAH - Very very highly recommended to have GB for everyone.

15) Frontac - Unless u go for medal rank and do lots of rotating quests per day for it, I don't see any reason why have 1 in ur town.

16) Alcatraz - Looks great for everyone who ever does some fighting. With PE large military buildings which take so much 'footprint' size when u count the population, culturals and everything, it's already worth itself in very first levels, even if u lose all those unattached units u make every day. But usually u won't let em all die anyways, since u remove out the unhealthy ones. Next day they will be also healed, so slowly u will get a huge stock of extra units with it.
 

davidb3

Very good summary. I have some minor quibbles:
#3 Lighthouse and #14 RAH - I don't see much benefit of having both, unless you want to completely skip on Goods buildings.
#13 Capitol: at level 4 or so, it is better than Highrises (PE) for pop, so is useful if you already have tons of cash (St Marks).
#1, #6, #10 (statue, Cathedral, Castel): can be good for non PvP gamers too; very useful for conquest of map sectors, can be nice for some quests, and the attack bonus is very useful at times, especially in special events, later ages and at the end of tech tree.
#5 Hagia and #10 Castel: the daily fp bonus is almost as good as +50 diamonds per fp. Very good for gaining blueprints from GBs, and for helping to bump your own GBs up levels, once you have completed tech tree.
#5 Hagia and #8 Notre Dame: I prefer to compare GBs with unpolished cultural buildings. If you need polishing, that means you are missing out on motivate boosts. The Hagia Sophia and Notre Dame are better than a PE Park (unpolished), although I agree the Colosseum is rather iffy and perhaps not the best use of limited forge points.
 

DeletedUser3157

Very good [/U]summary. I have some minor quibbles:
#3 Lighthouse and #14 RAH - I don't see much benefit of having both, unless you want to completely skip on Goods buildings.
It's so much more supplies. Why have just 1 when u can have em both. If smth is really good and works, why limit urself. Besides both of them also provide goods, making them even more insanely powerful than they are already. They are 2nd and 3rd best GB of the game imo, and kinda a non-brainer. Better ur collect, more points u make.
#13 Capitol: at level 4 or so, it is better than Highrises (PE) for pop, so is useful if you already have tons of cash (St Marks).
It's pop that comes to u with almost no other benafits. You still need to take care of it in regards to happiness buildings. If you get that population from houses instead, u don't suffer the problem of missing out those coins. U need to view population both as smth u need to run ur town, but also as a burden, cause u need to maintain it(waste space on culturals). Considering u need culturals no matter how you get that pop, that alternative building u get with the space u save due to having Capitol needs to be hell ofa strong to make up what u miss from your houses(as I mentioned above, kings would be easily strong enough to be worth it and deli shops would be just slighlty worth it in regards to total overall collect, but mess up the balance ratios between coins/supplies)
#1, #6, #10 (statue, Cathedral, Castel): can be good for non PvP gamers too; very useful for conquest of map sectors, can be nice for some quests, and the attack bonus is very useful at times, especially in special events, later ages and at the end of tech tree.
I said that for #1, the Zeus, because it is just 6 tiles. And also mentioned del monte is nice for the FPs. Aachen though I think would be too much investment if u just fight on map, that one is for the daily PvPers imo.
#5 Hagia and #10 Castel: the daily fp bonus is almost as good as +50 diamonds per fp. Very good for gaining blueprints from GBs, and for helping to bump your own GBs up levels, once you have completed tech tree.
Yes the daily FPs is great. That's why I hyped del Monte and almost built Hagia.
#5 Hagia and #8 Notre Dame: I prefer to compare GBs with unpolished cultural buildings. If you need polishing, that means you are missing out on motivate boosts. The Hagia Sophia and Notre Dame are better than a PE Park (unpolished), although I agree the Colosseum is rather iffy and perhaps not the best use of limited forge points.
It usually makes sense for most players to run polish based towns when it comes to effectiveness. I also ran polish based towns for 14 months(it just changed cause Alcatraz came and I didn't want to raze the zeppelins I had won from summer event). So I usually count polish in my calcs, but I use a ~75% polished error margin, cause I don't run 100% polish-depenent towns anyways. Usually I leave an error margin of 2 unpolished to still hit 120%. It made around 75% the norm back when I had around 8 culturals. So I see a 75 per tile trading company as 75*1.75=131.25 etc.
 

DeletedUser15432

One of the best and most sought after grate buildings has got to be the Alcatraz, everyone want it so those who get there first will see it level up very quickly, you get a decent happiness bonus (3800 at level 3) a saving in the number of barracks needed for effect armies. my list of great buildings to have would be as follows: Zues, Lighthouse, Babel (if you get it early it is a great help) Aachen, Castel del Monte, St Marks and Alcatraz. I include all three attack bonus great buildings as I normally fight between 40 and 50 PvP battles per day

The only thing I can think of that would be useful in the next age great buildings is to have a hospital to reduce the amount of time units take to heal, u.e. 5% reduction per level
 

davidb3

That's a very cool GB benefit suggestion (for PvP players at least). It would have to be a special hospital to be a GB though, or perhaps be the benefit of a special event building, at a specific level (20% reduction?). Hope one of the developers reads this :)
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Re Hint's comment that more supplies are better, that only goes so far. At the end of the tech tree (on B), with a L10 Lighthouse (no RAH), I have over 12 million supplies, and nothing to spend them on, except for occasional urban renewal plans as per Rinbin's crazy ideas. Likewise, with Goods from the Lighthouse, St Mark's, the Frauenkirche, and Wishing Well, I don't really feel a need for more Goods-producing GBs; at least, not until the next era arrives. The only place to use the Goods now is in construction of some more GBs, which is getting challenging (for space). I have saved up enough for ONE new PE GB, and will likely not build the other. The RAH is simply not useful to me. I will, however, consider the Capitol if it means that I can eventually get 100 squares worth of pop into a 35-square footprint. The pop is needed for military and Goods buildings (for quests if nothing else). I agree though that it does require rather special circumcumstances to make the Capitol really appealing - in my case the St Mark's and other GBs have led to a stockpile of over 17m coins, so I don't think it will hurt to lose some coin production by getting rid of some houses. I also have over 10,000 excess happiness (city is always enthusiastic), so can stand to have a greater population, if I can figure out where to find the space. :p
 

DeletedUser15432

I have actually put the hospital idea forward in the ideas section since I posted the above thread if you want to have a look at the actual proposal.
 

leeroyj

Hint's stuff is spot on as usual, but I would probably change some of the analysis if I was giving the advice to people who weren't starting to build GBs during the end of the tech tree.

I think you both undervalue the Chateau but I don't really blame you. It would be way more powerful if it wasn't in the age it was. I probably get something like 15-20 quest turn ins a day and it only adds to that. If you have 3 random quests going, then chances are getting 55k gold/supply reward rather than 30k is going to make you get several more quest turnins a day. That is what I am getting from my level 5 and it should only get better with time. I haven't even battled much since they did the new merge system, and I am something like #4 in server for medals, so there is that too. The extra daily FP packs (more turn ins) and goods are also nice as well. If you are someone who only gets a couple quest turn ins a day it prob isn't worth it. The only way i could see that happening is if you aren't running 24hr prod times though.

@davib3
It really doesn't make any sense from a mathematical standpoint to use unpolished buildings as a comparison. How much do you lose from one house being motivated? That can give you a number to quantify the one polish if you really need something. Everything in your town will end being motivated if you are PE and running 24 hr times anyways.

I also don't know how you can say there is a point where you can have too much gold. The only such point I can envision is when you have all GBs maxed out and you have like 50 million. Even 50 million might not be enough to purchase enough FPs to get through next age and build new buildings without a bunch of FP packs though. Gold will always be incredibly useful if there is anything you can spend FPs on.
 

Surge

Brigadier-General
in my case the St Mark's and other GBs have led to a stockpile of over 17m coins, so I don't think it will hurt to lose some coin production by getting rid of some houses. :p
Huh, the way it is for me with a Lv 7 Mark's and roughly 20k coins per hour, I'm having trouble STACKING coins.

 

DeletedUser3157

I think you both undervalue the Chateau but I don't really blame you. It would be way more powerful if it wasn't in the age it was. I probably get something like 15-20 quest turn ins a day and it only adds to that. If you have 3 random quests going, then chances are getting 55k gold/supply reward rather than 30k is going to make you get several more quest turnins a day. That is what I am getting from my level 5 and it should only get better with time. I haven't even battled much since they did the new merge system, and I am something like #4 in server for medals, so there is that too. The extra daily FP packs (more turn ins) and goods are also nice as well. If you are someone who only gets a couple quest turn ins a day it prob isn't worth it. The only way i could see that happening is if you aren't running 24hr prod times though.
Yeah, I can sorta see by now I was slightly too harsh on it. I mean if u are one of those players sitting at end of PE research tree for 5 months waiting for next age and doing 20 rotating quests per day, you wouldn't mind one lvl10 Chateu sitting somewhere in the corner of your town too much. But being one of those players, I still won't go though that process of building it and then getting it leveled I think.

One thing is is that I'm a bit lazy and I don't want to get through the effort of working it up, esp now when I missed the initial first(and even second) wave trains. I wanna save calling in for favours for stuff maybe in future that I really want a lot. For example smth like Alcatraz that I liked and that I succeeded to get leveled very quickly. I mean I'm an impatient man and I can't just stand some unleveled GB sitting there for months slowly minding its own business - I will feel the need to get the damn thing done ASAP and do smth about it, can't feel at peace before :P

Another one is that I play largely for rank points and so Chateu really brings almost nothing to the table in that regard. Medals have no effect on that once u have more of them that you have use for expanions wise. Forge points I collect for next ages stock this GB has no effect on. Coin and supply rewards last I checked don't effect rank score when coming from quest, and besides, those rewards are really small anyways. BPs I have no use for(maybe one day it changes, but whatever), and this GB doesn't effect that reward anyways. Diamonds I haven't seen from rotating quests since the first few days of PE once I collected em once from each quest. It pretty much leaves only goods reward bonus. But with the base reward of 5, the extra is not really major.

One thing I quess where it can help me is next age quest line. With the goods reward bigger and that being always the only drawback for me that stops me from completing it asap(fresh goods needed for research), I can perhaps do it in 1 day instead of 2, or 2-3 days instead of 3-4, whatever the resarch tree is like. And also seeing how last 3 ages have all had about like 100-200 diamonds within their quests, it can be an extra 150-300 diamond bonus once new age appoaches. Might build Chateu because of it in my other 7 worlds tbh.

Anyways long story short - I maybe should have built it few months ago, I wouldn't mind having 1 lvl10 in my town. But now I don't bother any more, too minor issue it seems to me for all this trouble(what is like 10x more effort now than when this GB was brand new and interested donators were everywhere).

Now I just gotta wait till they make some major uber change in regards to medals system and all those players with millions of medals more than me will somehow turn it into zillions of points profit :P
 
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DeletedUser653

hint - a really nice injection into this thread and just about the best thread to do it in.

Its very late so I an not doing a big review but lessons for everyone are (IMHO);
1) Lighthouse & St Marks are must have buildings, especially as they come quite early in game
next options depends on your game style, Trader or Attacker? I will comment for attacker:
2) Zeus (another must have), Castel de mont (a must have as attack and FP)
3) Cathedral of Aachen - the 3rd attack GB and essential if your a PVP/plundering type of player.
4) now it gets much more interesting and in my view becomes much more confused, 1st real decision:
A major issue for any player must be am I a early adopter of this GB and thus will I get leveled up, choose the wrong GB at the wrong time in your hood/guild and it will get to level 2 or 3 and then go no where, so its really important to take this into account. My Alcatraz was the 2nd in my guild and is now about L8 in only 4 weeks, but if you get one in December most players will have it and leveling up will be slow. So, Please consider if the GB is still on a fast track within your guild/hood or its reached the slow track. If its reached the slow track only build it if an essential one to your city strategy.
5) where now? its 03:45 in my world and time for bed and more comments tomorrow. As hint "hints" at there is a big difference in getting a GB in an early stage as against a late stage and more thought should go into this.
Mark
 

MrDuke

I dont know, I might be impartial since I'm a big fan of all GBs, but I think even the top players with big appetites for rank points could settle for a minor points loss if they put up the Chateau. If you consider that the Chateau gives you 35k coins (which is 116 rank points per day), and if you use that 30 squares for high rises (lets say you can fit 2.5 which give you what, 2.5 x 42k = 105k coins), you basically get 70k coins more which corresponds to 230 points less per day if you choose to build Chateau instead of houses. You would need 12k more battle points per day (its not even one average battle) to compensate for these points.
Bottomline, nowadays with superhoods where you make a lot more points in battle, even top players can afford a slight loss in points from coin/supply collections and get other benefits, like setting up useful GBs :-P In case of Chateau these benefits are substantial if you do the repeating quests. You never know what use you will have for those medals, then doubling the goods output and other quest prizes (like more FPs, etc) are things that can always be put to good use.

However, take my words with caution :-P They are coming from a guy that still keeps the Colosseum in his town :-D
 

Surge

Brigadier-General
You got the right idea, MrDuke, but everyone has preferences, it seems. For instance, the top guy in my neighborhood, who invades everyone and plunders everyone every day, currently has a max babel, a Basil, and Lv. 7 DC. At PE, those buildings are pathetically useless, and the point loss is pretty big. I mean, out of all the things, a Basil? That is one of THE worst GB's in the game (because defense bonuses are practically nonexistent to developed armies, and the coin income is relatively small). DC is tailing Basil, but it's up higher only because it provides medals per day, and even then it takes a huge chunk of your city.

About the Chateaux, it actually could net more points than the High Rises in its place. Since people do loopers every day, they can usually score a lot of rewards, and I found that Unbirthday Party is an especially useful way to get BP's and medals. If not those, a max Chateaux can almost fully reimburse your costs if you happen to get a coin or supply reward. And not even that quest is the only one applicable; the collect coin and supply quests are relatively easy, one day each, Grivus is easy if you got the right buildings, Greva is a space-hog of a time-waster (with those one day productions), and you can forget about Fernikus because he is the epitome of "having too much time on your hands."
 

DeletedUser15432

Well, my preference for great buildings is as follows:

Zues, Aachen, Lighthouse, Babel, Castel del Monte, St Marks and Alcatraz, not sure about the viability of the chateau yet
 

davidb3

If you can complete several (random reward) quests per day, a Level 10 Chateau Frontenac is GOLDEN. In my own experience on B, I have now received diamonds four times in the past month (i.e. about +65 after boosting applied) and lots of medals, vs only one +50 diamond collection from my seven Wells on four worlds.
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I currently complete about 5 random quests a day (trying not to skip any), with +100% boost (L8). This means an average daily collection of an extra 21,000 coins (plus another 26k daily base for L8 Chateau), 24,800 supplies, 105 medals, 1.5 diamonds, and 8.5 Goods (based on my current statistics of which rewards are received from random reward quests). So, I'm getting more medals than from a L10 Deal Castle, plus more supplies than from a L10 Capitol, plus nearly as many coins (and half as many goods) as a St Mark's would provide, PLUS extra diamonds every month, AND the Chateau is smaller than any of those individually! Sweet!
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Unfortunately this will only last as long as the random quests at the end of the Progressive Era ... which will likely go away in the near future when the Modern Era arrives. (Diamonds and Medals are far less common in regular progression quests, at least not until the very end of the technology tree is reached.)
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Note: I do not advocate doing a lot of Rinbin's "Unbirthday" quests (pay 50k coins and 60k supplies for a random reward). Rinbin DOES occasionally give diamonds, but at a far lower rate than Dame Greva (who asks for a lot of one day production quests). Unbirthday is typically a way of converting a lot of money and supplies into a much smaller amount of money, supplies, or Goods - although the occasional Medals are nice.
 
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DeletedUser112

the characters do not give diamonds in equal measure? I's been months since I do not receive 20 diamonds from the missions. I only do 3 missions: to collect 280,000 coins, 250,000 materials, 66 forgepoint
 

Ggryvi

Diamonds are given only once per quest. If you've got 20 diamonds from "collect 280,000 coins" quest, you'll never get them from this quest again.
 

DeletedUser5356

Diamonds are given only once per quest. If you've got 20 diamonds from "collect 280,000 coins" quest, you'll never get them from this quest again.
I beg to differ Ggryvl. On one of the quests I have had diamonds twice. However, the percentage of diamonds must be extremely low. I'm doing about 15 or 16 loop quests a day so it must be a fraction of a percentage possibility.
 

DeletedUser7719

kickflip is correct:
just a fyi the chance of getting diamonds on bonus quests is about 1-5% The more diamonds you grab the lower the %. This is to prevent diamond farming and people needlessly taking up server space on other worlds thereby ruining the game for some players.
 

DeletedUser112

since then I have 10000 diamonds do not receive other missions. however, if I spend, and I go back to 0, I can receive 1-5%?