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Great Buildings Make high era GBs require two-lane roads

DeletedUser111866

Proposal:
Make high era GBs require two-lane roads

Have you Checked the Ideas section for the same idea posted by someone else? Is this idea similar to one that has been previously suggested?
Yes, failed to find any

Reason:
With current levels of stagnation, Arcs and other stuff it's pretty possible (although with devotion and/or money) to acquire late-era GBs as early as EMA or probably even Iron Age. BUT, a GB is not a thing in itself, it requires infrastructure to support its function, so you can't just slap an Arc and expect it to work. Well, at least you can't expect it to work at full power - MAYBE you can get some benefits from it without supplying the necessary stuff.

Details:
Since there is nothing in the game like power supply, the only equivalent of power tech is roads. I propose that great buildings from Modern Era and above should require two-lane roads to work properly. After all, say Innova has cars in the backyard, what city car can successfully move on a trail? On the other hand, this proposal as is would kill most players right away, as they rely on their arcs and other stuff they have from future eras, so I also propose that if a GB from the list is only connected with a 1-lane road, it works but at 50% efficiency.

"Late-era" is Modern and onward. So, the following GBs will do the following when only connected via 1-lane road:
- Space Needle - will provide half happiness and half income
- Atomium - will provide half happiness and half the amount of goods (rounded up)
- Cape Canaveral - will produce half the FPs
- The Habitat - will provide full population (since if you disconnect any pop building, you still have the pop, so there's no dynamic pop thing around, and "provide half pop" is unavailable) and half coins (zero coins is also a no-no, or else it'll be worthy to plain disconnect the Habitat, losing the reason to nerf it)
- Lotus Temple - see Space Needle
- Innovation Tower - will provide full population but zero FPs (since FPs are a lot more valuable than coins, I feel it reasonable to prevent FP gain from Innova, because it's otherwise at full capacity)
- Dynamic Tower - will grant half the attempts to produce aid goods, and half coins income
- Voyager V1 - see Dynamic Tower
- The Arc - will give half the boost (say a level 80 Arc connected with a 1-lane will only grant 45% contribution boost instead of 90%) and half amount of guild goods
- Rain Forest Project - will provide half the chance to get a BP and half the goods amount
- Gaea Statue - (well, given it's plain happiness/medals, like a Colosseum, maybe not nerf it? But still) will provide half happiness and half medals
- Arctic Orangery - will grant half the crit chance listed and half the FPs
- Seed Vault - will provide half chance to get resources and half supplies
- Atlantis Museum - will provide half chance to double plunder and half goods
- The Kraken - will grant half chance to proc (full number of attempts) and half the FPs

Visual Aids:
None

Balance:
Top players will spend more space for roads, effectively forcing them to redesign cities, and potentially lowering their overall productivity per day. Pre-PE players will get their "too future" building work at half efficiency, also hampering their growth, probably by more than a third. Nothing should instantly break, but... The highest impact would be against developed heavy questers, the main power supply (CF) is not affected, but the proposed change would seriously limit their growth past the limit of PE, until they move to PE and build two-lane roads to their arcs.

Abuse Prevention:
Arc abusing by low-age players will be more difficult, although won't be prevented fully. This change is more of a balance from age perspective, so probably won't provoke abuses itself.

Summary:
This change will lessen the priority for Arc, CC, Innova, and to lesser extent Habitat and The Kraken to lower-age players, encouraging them to actually advance in eras rather than sit in CA or before and build their Arcs prior to having the tech available to actually understand The Future.

Also this proposal is very likely to raise hatred from powerbase players that are not yet in Progressive Era, and less probably from some AF/OF players that worked hard to optimize their city layout and are facing the potential need to change it.
 

DeletedUser96901

-1

encouraging them to actually advance in eras rather than sit in CA or before
you only move them a little bit later to progressive era
and then all would sit there


better would be
use of special goods
so Kraken would need Orichalcum to build
(and they could introduce new special goods in eras below arctic future which then will be required to build the GB

so I also propose that if a GB from the list is only connected with a 1-lane road, it works but at 50% efficiency.
why not simply proposing:
if you are below the age of the GB it will work with 50% (no road restriction)

so a lighthouse in bronze age also would only give half benefts

I propose that great buildings from Modern Era and above should require two-lane roads to work properly.
what ?

two-lane roads are in progressive era (you can't even be in PE without having those roads unlocked)
two of best GB are in progressive era

if this idea will ever be applied it MUST start for GBs from progressive era

:rolleyes:

"Late-era" is Modern and onward. So, the following GBs will do the following when only connected via 1-lane road:
- Space Needle - terrible GB
- Atomium - terrible GB
- The Habitat - terrible GB
- Lotus Temple - terrible GB
- Gaea Statue -terrible GB
but
Alcatraz:awesome GB
Chateau: awesome GB
 
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DeletedUser111866

Well, why not put PE GBs under the effect as well? Traz would give half units/day and half happiness, and CF half quest reward bonus and half coins. If you're only objecting my selection of when it's "late", just suggest a different value for "late".
(and they could introduce new special goods in eras below arctic future which then will be required to build the GB
This will put future players to disadvantage, because existing GBs won't be affected, and if you're to build a new one you'd have to get a special resource while those with existing GBs did not need to get. No.
if you are below the age of the GB it will work with 50% (no road restriction)
Well, this version is a good alternative. Why not? BTW just checked, russian forum has this exact proposal in active discussion ("if not reached GB era, cut effect in half").
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kwisatz Haderach

Chief Warrant Officer
Someting interesting in this idea IF you want raise Fair-Play...but if you not want.... ;)

If one building request one-line road, another two-line road, and some water, then how can be GB-s all on one-line roads? But yes, the game will be a bit harder to play.

+1
 

DeletedUser111351

1. I can't see this ever happening as it so completely nerfs a very large population of the game's current player base.
2. "Fixing" it by slapping on such an arbitrary situation as higher level GBs need a 2-lane road and so everyone before that is majorly hurt and everyone after that is only minorly hurt and people grow up to the completely arbitrary cutoff to put a bandaid on it isn't really any fix at all.
3. Letting people "keep" their non-functioning/half-producing GBs punishes them even further. Now all their land is used so they can't build replacements to make up for their now lack of production and shouldn't destroy the buildings.
4. Abuse prevention, the answer given here is how this change would fix an existing "abuse." First, that's not what this section is for. This section is how can this proposal be abused and what can the designers implement to lessen or remove said abuse. Second, no proof was given that an abuse actually exists (just the basic assumption that "I don't like how it currently works therefore it is an abuse").

First of all, this is a game. Anything is possible. "BUT, a GB is not a thing in itself, it requires infrastructure to support its function, so you can't just slap an Arc and expect it to work." Why can't it? An alien race visited my city and gave me a self-sustaining, self-powered Arc. They dropped it right into place and it's been humming along nicely ever since. How does a Giant Statue of Zeus make my cannons take less damage when they are hit? We aren't constrained by the rules of what existed on Earth at the supposed similar era as each age within the game.

I can respect that some people like gaining late game GBs early. I can respect that some people don't like it. But if a massive upheaval of the game is going to be proposed, at least come up with ideas that don't crush half the players in the game and leave the other half untouched. Saying, "we'll just crush them half-way," (nerfing all their buildings by 50%) is not a solution.

Go back to the drawing board and add in contingencies like:
1. Players can now store a GB that is of later age than current and later rebuild it for free or at minimal cost.
2. Players can destroy a GB and recoup 90% of the BP, goods, FP put into it.
Basically, if you're going to ruin an entire way of playing the game, give the players already using that strategy a way to get out of it.

Also, remove this arbitrary age requirement. Why put in a hard cut-off of here is a magic age when everything becomes okay and before this everything is bad? Make the GBs scale with current era. After all, that's how all the other buildings work. You have a cider mill? Well at bronze age it produces a certain number of supplies. At iron age it's the same mill but now it produces more supplies, and on and on up the era tree. Or at least propose that the further away from the "supposed" age of the GB the worse it performs. If I'm 1 era away from the age of the building why should I have the same 50% reduction as someone in Iron Age?
 

DeletedUser111589

-1

So what if iron age player has arc? You get one as well. I feel like this post is made out of spite on player who have high age GB in low age. I'm not the one with them but I'd very much love to have them as I'm trying to get inno and traz BPs right now. Of course, I plan on advancing up an age as soon as possible (probably after Halloween event) and I don't plan on stopping in LMA.

You would purposefully hinder growth of many players. It would be better if you asked for kraken and Atlantis museum to be placed at the edge of or in the ocean/lake.
 

Kwisatz Haderach

Chief Warrant Officer
The GB system are now exploited by the strong players, that can boosting newcomers to build an ARC in the Iron era. Is this fair? Definitely not, and that we all know. The hard thing is to change that and have motivatin to change that, because building GBs 4 era before yours is very exciting. All players who put some effort and love in this game are building some GB-s before his era.
 

DeletedUser111589

How it's not fair? You, who is in iron age, builds arc then someone, who is in OF, builds it and levels it up. You profit, that someone profits.

If you need to blame someone, blame players who have mindset of "I don't need that GB" or lady luck for not going you that last BP you so need to complete set.

Game is fair if you don't scrutinize others for looking into the sky while dreaming of flying and actually use your brain for thinking about how to build a plane so you can fly.
 

DeletedUser111866

Yup, build a plane - out of stones and sticks. And not have someone drop gray goo on you that forms into a plane by an incomprehensible process, and pretend it's you who created that plane. Also not a single system is actually self-contained, not even Arc (well, earthly analog of the Arc, the in-game one does pretend to be self-sustaining), and all other GBs should require some maintenance (none implemented, but still it's at least logical), and would deteriorate or lose productivity if not handled properly.
 

DeletedUser96901

Yup, build a plane
we let build
and even the city with least technology can buy the best technology from elsewhere

because the highest technology of the world is not defined by low advanced cities but from the highest advanced ones

and this is how this game works too:
because if NO city in a world has reached the future era there is no way to build an Arc

so back to your plane
if an African city with no technology buys a plane they have one :lol:

out of stones and sticks
you know that you can't build an rc with stones and sticks
you need to buy advanced goods

so why do you think it would be out of stones and sticks ?
 

DeletedUser111866

if an African city with no technology buys a plane they have one :lol:
True, however they can't fly it, they have no fuel, no runways and no pilots to understand what should they do with that thousand of controls within the cockpit :D They will "fly" it by pushing it on the ground by muscular force. Works, but at "half" efficiency. Same here with Arcs and Krakens :lol:

I'm saying that building arcs in Iron Age should NOT be prevented, but Arcs should NOT work at full capacity if they are not supported well enough.
 

DeletedUser111351

True, however they can't fly it, they have no fuel, no runways and no pilots to understand what should they do with that thousand of controls within the cockpit :D They will "fly" it by pushing it on the ground by muscular force. Works, but at "half" efficiency. Same here with Arcs and Krakens :lol:

I'm saying that building arcs in Iron Age should NOT be prevented, but Arcs should NOT work at full capacity if they are not supported well enough.
And if it doesn't run off of fossil fuels? What if it is powered by Marty McFly's Mr. Fusion and just needs any old bio-waste? What if it runs on solar power and just needs to be cleaned once in a while? What if they are given a glider and not a plane?

And there are plenty of sea planes that don't need runways, as well as rough terrain planes that just need a field, not to mention any number of places that exist in the world today who use runways that are nothing more than a hard-packed dirt trail.

Really, they don't have pilots? And the advanced tech cities, they all have people that are born with the knowledge and ability to fly planes because their city has made planes? People aren't taken and taught how to fly? A member of a tribal nation couldn't also be taught?

Even funnier, you choose to use Kraken in your argument? A mythological sea-beast that often destroys ships, what, pray tell, is lacking in the village that stops a god-like-monster from eating a soldier in an attacking army? Is the Kraken weak from undernourishment because the village hasn't invented the career position of dietician? Does the Kraken miss an attack because the tribe's vocabulary is not sophisticated enough to properly explain the, "eat that one," strategy?

If you want changes in the game, fine, ask for changes in the game. Coming up with all these cockamamy explanations for how something in this game might not work in the real world just weakens your stance.
 

DeletedUser111866

Reductio ad absurdum weakens YOUR stance instead. Yes, I was expecting hot arguments from those that don't want them getting nerfed - sure, it's normal, no one wants to be hit with a bat, even if the bat is foam coated. Still an argument should be based on the core of the proposal, not on the explanation which can anyway be dismissed with "MAGIC!!11" or something like that. In fact, all those counter-arguments were based on a particular GB (first Arc then Chateau then Kraken), but none covered all of them at once. What if you've built a habitat for iron age people - will it stay working for long enough? I say no, as the habitat is a glorified skyscraper, requiring a lot of electricity to run its facilities. What if you grant em a Cape Canaveral - it's plain useless if the civ/nation cannot build space grade rockets. What if you give them a Big Church (actually, any of the 6 present) - at least they can do crude repairs to walls of such a building, but no way they can repair an electric pump without proper spare parts. And why do you think that even with the kraken its efficiency only depends on the ability to point it at the target, and there is no actual training involved in say psionic arts to actually influence the megalopod? So, my argument still stands - proper infrastructure is required to make a GB run at full capacity, and it can be represented either with ovrrall tech requirements (aka reaching the named age/era) or with two-lane roads (making a threshold at PE).
 

DeletedUser111589

Then pray say how does a statue of Zeus increases attack and defense of attacking army even for players thousands of years in the future?

By then, people would either change religion (nowadays not even Greek pray to their old gods) or they would find that god does not exist. A statue will be just a statue with no purpose other than to be a decoration.

You can't make stuff about that kind of logic without looking what would change in the past.
 

DeletedUser110195

All I see here is: I didn't have the foresight to aim for advanced age GBs so you shouldn't be allowed to have them OR I'm too lazy to do what's needed to build advanced age GBs so you shouldn't be allowed to either, and punish anyone who already has built these things because if I couldn't be bothered to do it you should have to stagnate for my narrow vision, not me!
 
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