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The Arc is too powerful

DeletedUser100832

In order to level up an Arc to 80 in 2 months without spending any diamonds you need some friends who do spend diamonds and work intensely together with you sniping high level Arcs and other GBs by dual/triple jumping so you can sit in their slipstream on the way to lvl 80. Not many players are in the necessary environment to be able to do that. But it's definitely possible.

As for the post above, the ranking system will be overhauled soon and those people will be kicked down to a more normal rank soon. A lvl 80+ Arc can not compete with an active fighter for ranking points at all.

don't really think you need diamonds. They help, for sure. But yeah, the most important thing is either (i) a committed guild of experienced players or (ii) a lot of time to spam people with offers of goods for fp. Of course, that's just to get over the initial hurdle of getting 3-4 of you to about level 25, after that's it's plain sailing, you barely need to lift a finger.
 

DeletedUser

The amount of negative replies

Bah, it's mostly HL trying to drown this thread into negativity, because they are exploiting it. I guess Inno is HL.



how is that causing a problem.....they have trillions of points ...so what...oh I see youre worried they might get too long and u gonna trip over em

As I wrote many times, but seems that you have a selective memory, which is a common symptom when someone is against something, it's not about the points. I guess I should write in multiple languages, to make it more clear, eh?

The points show their abuse, the points are not the problem, it will be fixed soon. The abuse is getting free FPs, more than pushing accounts. You could not get as many free FPs if you used 100 pushing accounts.

But I guess that's logical and ok. Don't allow pushing accounts, but keep the Arc destroying the game.



Probably this subject should start to fade ... everyone knows the points will be balanced, no matter how strong Arc is... now lets look for attention somewhere else :)

It has NOTHING to do with game points. Re-read.
 
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DeletedUser100832

thinking about it some more, the key problem here is the balance between high and low-level GB's that makes contributing to the former _so_ much more lucrative even without the arc bonus. The Arc is just the cherry on top that exacerbates an already existing problem. Basically, when Inno lifted the level cap on GB's they didn't do any analysis of the numbers to ensure balance.

I already talked about FP rewards from GB's not being a fixed % of the total number it takes to level. That's bad enough, but the same is true of blueprints. I donate to Frontenacs in all of my secondary worlds, and in the one world in which I donate to a level 18 Frontenac I nearly got a full set already. In worlds where I donate to lower Frontenacs - even though the amount of FP given is generally about the same - I got far fewer bp. Now, this could be just statistical variation, but I suspect not, I suspect that the expected number of fp needed to get a bp is really much lower on higher level GB's. Now, I don't see any reason whatsoever why this should be the case.

I would do a radical change - I would say that the top 10 contributors for _any_ gb level get 1bp each (for that gb). It would swing the balance around in favour of lower-level gb's (since they take fewer fp to level), but I think that's how it should be. Levelling out gb's should be easy at the start and harder and harder the further you go, not vice versa.
 

The Tominator

Sergeant
As I wrote many times, but seems that you have a selective memory, which is a common symptom when someone is against something, it's not about the points. I guess I should write in multiple languages, to make it more clear, eh?

The points show their abuse, the points are not the problem, it will be fixed soon. The abuse is getting free FPs, more than pushing accounts. You could not get as many free FPs if you used 100 pushing accounts.

But I guess that's logical and ok. Don't allow pushing accounts, but keep the Arc destroying the game.

I think you live in cloud cuckoo land...it is not hard to find 2-300 players to support your gbs there are literally hundreds-thousands of players wanting arc bps across all servers because its such a great powerful gb.....some of these people don't even buy goods they just donate.
and yes I clear my friends list every3 weeks to make room for more customers in case u were wondering how to use 2- 300 people.
u could get your arc up in 3 months just spam spam spam...now stop this nonsense and go start 1
 
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DeletedUser

I think you live in cloud cuckoo land...it is not hard to find 2-300 players to support your gbs there are literally hundreds-thousands of players wanting arc bps across all servers because its such a great powerful gb.....some of these people don't even buy goods they just donate.
and yes I clear my friends list every3 weeks to make room for more customers in case u were wondering how to use 2- 300 people.
u could get your arc up in 3 months just spam spam spam...now stop this nonsense and go start 1

Again, you fail to see the free FPs it provides and how you can abuse it.

And _I_ live in a cuckoo land? Please. Doesn't take a doctorate to understand.
 

The Tominator

Sergeant
Again, you fail to see the free FPs it provides and how you can abuse it.

And _I_ live in a cuckoo land? Please. Doesn't take a doctorate to understand.

of course I can see the fp it provides my arc is at 90%....I don't call it abusing... I call it profit....and if I have a guild full of 90% arcs then yes I will enlist some help to get 2/3/4th cheaper ...this is no different from joe blogs spending all his coins to steal top spot ..all the arc does is avoid wasting all ur fp ...now go and make1 b4 u miss out on this fantastic oppurtunity
 

DeletedUser106685

The term 'free FP' does not apply. Neither does the term 'abuse'.
They're reaping the rewards from investing tens of thousands of FPs into the Arc, to get it up to that level.
It's a smart investment, because you profit from it in the long run.
That should be obvious by now.

It's like saying every player that completes a quest is 'abusing' their Chateau Frontenac. Or when you harvest your houses you're 'abusing' your St. Marks. Strange logic.
 
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DeletedUser

The term 'free FP' does not apply. Neither does the term 'abuse'.
They're reaping the rewards from investing tens of thousands of FPs into the Arc, to get it up to that level.
It's a smart investment, because you profit from it in the long run.
That should be obvious by now.

It's like saying every player that completes a quest is 'abusing' their Chateau Frontenac. Or when you harvest your houses you're 'abusing' your St. Marks. Strange logic.

Can you get help from people to get more quests rewards? No. That's a strange logic.

AGAIN, I have to explain it, cuz it seems difficult to understand. I guess it DOES need a doctorate.

Player A has 10,000 FPs in FP Packs.
Player A has an Arc that gives 90% in rewards.
Player A asks 10 players that do not have high Arcs to swap 1,000 FPs with him. Most don't have high Arcs anyway.
Player A puts the equivalent of 1st spot + 90% in each of the 10 players' GB or GBs. Doesn't matter which.
Player A gets 10,000 FPs from the 10 players.
Player A gets back the 10,000 from 1st spot rewards.
Player A makes 10,000 free FPs.

To make 10,000 free FPs from pushing accounts, it would require 416 fake accounts to do it in one day, 4.25 days with 100 fake accounts, 8.5 days with 50 fake accounts.

Imagine having to log into 50 fake accounts everyday... Doh. But that's not allowed by Inno, but they allow Arc abuse. That's not logical.
 

The Tominator

Sergeant
if the player A is giving out 10k and receiving back 10k into his gbs he does not make any packs. the 90% extra he is using to lock top spot is not enough and therefore he wont be able to lock top spot unless there are noobs in it already.
1 thing I can tell you is this.... im not swapping 10k fps for 10kfps and then adding the full 90% on top of that no siree..that is stupid because u gain jack squat....
 

DeletedUser7719

Player A has 10,000 FPs in FP Packs.
Player A has an Arc that gives 90% in rewards.
Player A asks 10 players that do not have high Arcs to swap 1,000 FPs with him. Most don't have high Arcs anyway.
Player A puts the equivalent of 1st spot + 90% in each of the 10 players' GB or GBs. Doesn't matter which.
Player A gets 10,000 FPs from the 10 players.
Player A gets back the 10,000 from 1st spot rewards.
Player A makes 10,000 free FPs.
How many friends/guildies do you have that want to do a 1000FP swap? I have only seen a max of 300FP from my guild, and that comes once in a few months. (I did do a 510FP swap with one of my guildies, but it was Arc to Arc on the same level and spanned multiple days.)

Even if we did have that many people willing to do a 1,000FP swap, you're claiming that you make a 10,000FP profit from donating 10,000FP? (To be more specific, it's actually only a 10,000FP profit if it's 10,000FP more than the sum of the rewards that players B through K get, but let's be nice and assume they get 0 back from your swap) That means with a 90% bonus, we're looking at donating 1,000FPs to each player and getting back 1,052FP back from each player WITHOUT factoring in the Arc bonus (as total spent would be 10*1,000 = 10,000 and total gained would be 10*1,053*1.9 = (approx) 20,007FP which would be net 10,000FP profit).
EDIT: I did make an error as I forgot to account for the 10,000 you get back from the other players. Factoring that in, it would mean per 1,000FP you would have to get back about 526.3FP back from rewards (which means with all 10,000FP you would get back a total of 5,263FP) WITHOUT factoring in the Arc bonus AND assuming the people you're trading with are getting 0 rewards from donating their 1,000FP as 10*526.3*1.9 = 10,000FP.
Now something aint' right there (and hopefully it isn't my math this time :P)

Note I'm not saying that the Arc is an OP GB as is, but you can't make that much FP easily, or at least in that manner.
 
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DeletedUser

I just don't understand why Recksters waited until The Arc came out before complaining about great buildings. :rolleyes:

As if a dozen others released weren't blatantly "overpowered" for those who have vs those who don't have.

Zeus, Lighthouse, Cathedral of Aachen, Hagia Sophia, St Marks, Castel del Monte, Deal Castle were all "overpowered" when GBs were introduced to the game: They give advantages to players who built them compared to those who didn't build them.

- Deal Castle: much faster expansions (= more points & better medals ranking)
- Lighthouse: more supplies (= faster points)
- Zeus: less damage taken (= faster points)
- Hagia Sophia: more forge points (= faster levels on GBs)
- St Marks: more coins (= faster points)
- Castel del Monte: less damage taken (= faster points AND faster GB leveling)
 

DeletedUser107898

LOL stop contradicting your self with every reply you post.
If you see players "abusing" of the Arc bonus, why did you snipped mine ? And when Ive unfriended you, you were , again, moaning you gave me fp and I removed you from my list.... lmao
Leaving that aside...
At first you started to cry cause the points from the Arc raised few players to high... So?
Then after that, you say its not that, its the bonus... So? You snipped mine this morning.. That my friend, makes you an unfair player, cause you took advantage of the cheap 1st place in my Arc and jumping all around doing the happy dance, cause you got a nice deal.
So when you do it, its okay, but when others are helping their guild mates back, thanks to the Arc, its not ok?
Let it go Reck... ALL FoE players are happy about the arc, you are one against thousands :)
Imagine INNO listening to your moan about this subject :)))
You will be the only one left playing the game, probably with the newbies, that have no idea about this forum and finally you will be the #1
Just let it go... pff we are taking advantage of our Arc bonus :))
You are too!
 

DeletedUser100832

The term 'free FP' does not apply. Neither does the term 'abuse'.
They're reaping the rewards from investing tens of thousands of FPs into the Arc, to get it up to that level.
It's a smart investment, because you profit from it in the long run.
That should be obvious by now.

It's like saying every player that completes a quest is 'abusing' their Chateau Frontenac. Or when you harvest your houses you're 'abusing' your St. Marks. Strange logic.

Frontenac at high levels is also a loophole that needs to be shut, yes.

St Marks isn't.

Any feature of the game that allows you to put in a resource only to extract more of the same resource is an abuse. In the case of St Marks, you can make the argument that you put FP in, get coins out and can turn those back into FP. But, the key difference is that the price of FP in coins goes up the more FP you buy. So there, there is a good example of how this possibility of abuse is countered by a smart mechanism within the game.

For the Arc and Frontenac no such smart mechanism exists. It's basically a licence for the filthy rich to get even more filfthy rich without having to make any effort whatsoever.
 
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DeletedUser99445

While the ARC is amazing at transforming the level of rewards and FP's available and I Think its Extremely Beneficial to all players who decide to build it.......The downside is that it's slowly diminishing the Game Play aspect.
The big guys and the little guys are all pretty much obsessed with this GB and NOT MUCH ELSE.
IF FOE is planning to leave this as is then they may as well scrap a lot of the other aspects of this game entirely and unload the servers.
All I see now is players levelling up ARC and gone again.
Shame that something so Brilliant has such a Massively Negative impact on the rest of the game.
Players will rarely have to spend any funds on any diamonds again to get BluePrints either as these are also boosted.
Soon enough, no one will need Shrines and Aiding a player for BP's is going to become a thing of the past.
I love the Arc but I prefer the game to survive.
 

DeletedUser100832

How many friends/guildies do you have that want to do a 1000FP swap? I have only seen a max of 300FP from my guild, and that comes once in a few months. (I did do a 510FP swap with one of my guildies, but it was Arc to Arc on the same level and spanned multiple days.)

Even if we did have that many people willing to do a 1,000FP swap, you're claiming that you make a 10,000FP profit from donating 10,000FP? (To be more specific, it's actually only a 10,000FP profit if it's 10,000FP more than the sum of the rewards that players B through K get, but let's be nice and assume they get 0 back from your swap) That means with a 90% bonus, we're looking at donating 1,000FPs to each player and getting back 1,052FP back from each player WITHOUT factoring in the Arc bonus (as total spent would be 10*1,000 = 10,000 and total gained would be 10*1,053*1.9 = (approx) 20,007FP which would be net 10,000FP profit).
EDIT: I did make an error as I forgot to account for the 10,000 you get back from the other players. Factoring that in, it would mean per 1,000FP you would have to get back about 526.3FP back from rewards (which means with all 10,000FP you would get back a total of 5,263FP) WITHOUT factoring in the Arc bonus AND assuming the people you're trading with are getting 0 rewards from donating their 1,000FP as 10*526.3*1.9 = 10,000FP.
Now something aint' right there (and hopefully it isn't my math this time :P)

Note I'm not saying that the Arc is an OP GB as is, but you can't make that much FP easily, or at least in that manner.

I am not totally sure of Reck's numbers either )).

For high-level GB's though, the top reward is often up to 30% of the total it takes to level. E.g. on a level 51 arc, the total is 2737 and top reward is 815 - which is 29.7%. Add an 80% bonus to that, and it becomes 54% - so more than half at only level 59 of Arc (and here we are talking of people with level 80)! Even on my relatively modest level 31, the top reward is around 27%, with a 80% bonus that's 48.6%, with a 90% bonus it's over 50% _again_.

Regarding the swaps, and using the 30% argument, yes, 52.6% reward before arc bonus is probably a tad optimistic, but that only means that Reck was out by a factor of 2. Paying 10000 and getting 15000 still sounds pretty nice to me.
 
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DeletedUser7719

Regarding the swaps, and using the 30% argument, yes, 52.6% reward before arc bonus is probably a tad optimistic, but that only means that Reck was out by a factor of 2. Paying 10000 and getting 15000 still sounds pretty nice to me
But remember I stated that we assume that the other players got nothing back. Let's assume they got the same base rewards back as the 90% Arc. You invest 10,000 and get 3,000 back from base rewards and so does the total of all the other players you traded with. You get back 15,700 (10,000 from other players + 3,000*1.9), but they gain back a total of 13,000. You only score a 2,700FP profit then. You think that's a lot, but if I trade smartly, I could limit a player from receiving a low amount of rewards, more precisely, I can do 10, 20-FP trades on any high-level great building 50 times. All those 10 people get nothing as I can easily get someone on global to pay more than 20FPs for the BPs they'll win from investing, but if I can get an average of 3FP back from each person I traded with (or in other words, I get a 5FP reward from 6 out of the 10 players), I would profit more than that Arc.
You can abuse basic GB Teams in this way, though it would be around a 50% profit rather than a 90%
 
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DeletedUser

How many friends/guildies do you have that want to do a 1000FP swap? I have only seen a max of 300FP from my guild, and that comes once in a few months. (I did do a 510FP swap with one of my guildies, but it was Arc to Arc on the same level and spanned multiple days.)

Even if we did have that many people willing to do a 1,000FP swap, you're claiming that you make a 10,000FP profit from donating 10,000FP? (To be more specific, it's actually only a 10,000FP profit if it's 10,000FP more than the sum of the rewards that players B through K get, but let's be nice and assume they get 0 back from your swap) That means with a 90% bonus, we're looking at donating 1,000FPs to each player and getting back 1,052FP back from each player WITHOUT factoring in the Arc bonus (as total spent would be 10*1,000 = 10,000 and total gained would be 10*1,053*1.9 = (approx) 20,007FP which would be net 10,000FP profit).
EDIT: I did make an error as I forgot to account for the 10,000 you get back from the other players. Factoring that in, it would mean per 1,000FP you would have to get back about 526.3FP back from rewards (which means with all 10,000FP you would get back a total of 5,263FP) WITHOUT factoring in the Arc bonus AND assuming the people you're trading with are getting 0 rewards from donating their 1,000FP as 10*526.3*1.9 = 10,000FP.
Now something aint' right there (and hopefully it isn't my math this time :P)

Note I'm not saying that the Arc is an OP GB as is, but you can't make that much FP easily, or at least in that manner.

Yes, your math is wrong.

I guess I didn't explain it properly.

Lemme try AGAIN. So many ways to abuse it.

Gertrude has 10,000 FPs in FP Packs.
Gertrude's Arc gives 90% in rewards.
Gertrude asks players that do not have high Arcs to swap with her. Most don't have high Arcs anyway.
Gertrude will ask these players to swap the equivalent of the top reward value + 90%.

Example:
- Gertrude asks Joe to swap.
- The top reward of Joe's GB is 300 FPs. The maximum amount will be 570. 300 + 90% = 570. Or 300 * 1.90 = 570.
- Gertrude will swap 570 FPs with Joe.
- Gertrude will put 570 FPs in Joe's GB, so she's now at 9,430 FPs in packs.
- Joe will put 570 in Gertrude's GB of choice. So Gertrude has a net value of 10,000 again. 10,000 - 570 + 570 = 10,000
- But when Gertrude collects, she gains 570 FPs.
- Net value of 10,570. Back at 10,000 FPs in packs, but received 570 FPs for free.

To make sure you win the top spot, just ask a guildmate to secure the 2nd spot.

- Gertrude's guildmate, Bartholomew, has an Arc that gives 78% in rewards.
- The 2nd spot in Joe's GB gives 150 FPs.
- Bartholomew puts 267 FPs in Joe's GB
- Bartholomew wins 267 FPs and makes the top spot impossible to take.

Repeat as often as you can.

Is that better explained?
 
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