DeletedUser
I researched everything and I want the ultimate army. What is it? I'm thinking it' 8 dragoons or 8 field guns. Any advice?
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DeletedUser
In Attack or in Defence?
With great buildings or without? If attacking and with offensive GBs then how many levels of offensive GBs?
With great buildings or without? If attacking and with offensive GBs then how many levels of offensive GBs?
DeletedUser
Good questions. Attacking. No GB.
DeletedUser
There is no ultimate army. Different defenses require different attacking army. Dragoons beat musketeers, musketeers beat grenadiers, grenadiers beat rangers, rangers beat dragoons.
The army that works in most cases (if you know how to use it) is 6/7 field guns and 2/1 grenadiers. 6/2 version - higher average losses, lower probability of losing or taking really high damage; 7/1 version - just the opposite.
The army that works in most cases (if you know how to use it) is 6/7 field guns and 2/1 grenadiers. 6/2 version - higher average losses, lower probability of losing or taking really high damage; 7/1 version - just the opposite.
DeletedUser
And if you get offensive GBs then Field Gun/Grenadier combo just gets better and better.
With +35% offensive boost from GBs, I could sometimes defeat 8 Field Guns using 1 Grenadier and 7 FGs without taking damage and most other CA armies with low damage only to the Grenadier.
With +70% offensive boost from GBs, I could regularly defeat 8 Field Guns using 1 Grenadier and 7 FGs without taking damage and almost all other CA armies with only 0-2 points of damage to the Grenadier.
I'm currently at +95% offensive boost and EMA troops and below cannot seem to harm a Grenadier, wounded HMA and LMA troops usually do zero damage to a Grenadier and my Field Guns are now killing un-boosted Dragoons, Grenadiers and Rangers in three shots and musketeers in two.
With +35% offensive boost from GBs, I could sometimes defeat 8 Field Guns using 1 Grenadier and 7 FGs without taking damage and most other CA armies with low damage only to the Grenadier.
With +70% offensive boost from GBs, I could regularly defeat 8 Field Guns using 1 Grenadier and 7 FGs without taking damage and almost all other CA armies with only 0-2 points of damage to the Grenadier.
I'm currently at +95% offensive boost and EMA troops and below cannot seem to harm a Grenadier, wounded HMA and LMA troops usually do zero damage to a Grenadier and my Field Guns are now killing un-boosted Dragoons, Grenadiers and Rangers in three shots and musketeers in two.
DeletedUser
I think this question miss one crucial detail "and in what era". So far I have some nasty spearman combo 
DeletedUser
Original post: "I researched everything...", so the era is CA. In previous ages combo long range + short range works almost always, but best proportions depend on the age and defensive army (6/2 or 4/4 in most cases). It doesn't work very well against 8 long ranged or the most terrible defensive unit of all times - Mounted Archers.I think this question miss one crucial detail "and in what era". So far I have some nasty spearman combo
DeletedUser3157
The old PvPer favorite setup of long and short range units is still very effective in most cases. Rule of thumb is more short range if enemy has stronger melee and more long range if enemy has more ranged units/weaker defense units. It just can be even more effective if u add a greneider in there to take the hits. People with high level GBs have sorta forgotten the basics a bit and left out the short range units since they can get all the job done with only FGs, but the need of short range is always there once U meet very stong units (multiple high defensive GB buffs etc) and discover 'oh dang my FGs can't do any damage and greneider just died'
DeletedUser653
PVP days are going out of fashion due to the medals in GB.
In PVP times the best troop was spear (easy/cheap to rebuild), Archers (least damage as kills from a distance), Longbow (least damage as kills from a distance), muskets (least damage as kills from a distance), but as many have said 8 muskets will die against 8 Grenadier. but they will win most battles at least damage and hence for PVP when you need to attack 60-80 players a day they were good. I used to run 6 muskets and could just about manage to attack every player and just kept a spear set of 4 to kill of those 2 spear defences and 2 sets (8) of archers to get medals from another tower.
Now with extra % attack it today favours those FG's but as the extra % attack and defence start to get more even amongst players it will switch back to the the hardest hitters or the hardest defenders, this pretty much propels the Grenadier to the top of the pile, while it does not have the biggest attack it attacks remotely and thus gets no retaliation - a big factor that many players forget.
I must admit I do like the 6 field guns + 2 Grenadier or 2 musket, but as you go up the tree and fight higher ranked players the 6 or 7 field guns are very venerable to long range Dragoons and once hit are pretty useless. So as many people have said there is no single most powerful attak or defence, but there are a couple which win 90% of the time
In PVP times the best troop was spear (easy/cheap to rebuild), Archers (least damage as kills from a distance), Longbow (least damage as kills from a distance), muskets (least damage as kills from a distance), but as many have said 8 muskets will die against 8 Grenadier. but they will win most battles at least damage and hence for PVP when you need to attack 60-80 players a day they were good. I used to run 6 muskets and could just about manage to attack every player and just kept a spear set of 4 to kill of those 2 spear defences and 2 sets (8) of archers to get medals from another tower.
Now with extra % attack it today favours those FG's but as the extra % attack and defence start to get more even amongst players it will switch back to the the hardest hitters or the hardest defenders, this pretty much propels the Grenadier to the top of the pile, while it does not have the biggest attack it attacks remotely and thus gets no retaliation - a big factor that many players forget.
I must admit I do like the 6 field guns + 2 Grenadier or 2 musket, but as you go up the tree and fight higher ranked players the 6 or 7 field guns are very venerable to long range Dragoons and once hit are pretty useless. So as many people have said there is no single most powerful attak or defence, but there are a couple which win 90% of the time
Surge
Brigadier-General
Well I don't attack much. However I do know that as a defense combo, 8 Dragoons work amazingly well due to their high speed and unusually high armor. They will need some GB support, though, if they face an 8-set of Rangers, but on a Lv. 9 Deal Castle they work well. 8 Grenadiers can work, but in the right circumstances, since they are quite slow, but they can ignore retaliation because they are 2-ranged. Forget 8 Field Guns, 8 Dragoons can easily rush them down. 8 Rangers can get smacked about by Musketeers and Grenadiers, but I am not sure about Field Guns. 8 Musketeers are also pretty bad with Dragoons, and I heard Grenadiers stand a fighting chance.
DeletedUser3157
CA units: Ranger is great for killing dragoons. I got 8 rangers to counter that setup just like I had 8 great swords in LMA to counter heavy knights. Dragoon is great for killing 8 FG, but 7 FG 1 greneider is usually better. I used to have 1 dragoon stable just to add more mix to my defense rotation, but I razed it as I don't get attacked too often and find the unit generally rather useless(nothing that ranger couldn't do really). Greneider is great for goat/bait unit, 8 greneider defense is a terrible idea, with my GBs I could prolly defeat 8 greneiders without any losses using iron age archers and before GBs it was no problem doing that with longbows, greneiders are just too slow, but still they are the best heavy melee unit respective to their age and aint too terrible unlike all the others. FG is great due to high range so fights with them go quick as it is less micromanagement. Musketeers are in the vain of archers and longbows - when things get tough, u can do great things when mircomanaging them correctly and beat just about any defense.
DeletedUser
Don't forget that Great Buildings have a different effect on different units that could change the situation depending on which Buildings you have. A greater effect on units with larger base numbers.
For example, +100% defense will give, say, a musketeer +18 defense, while a dragoon would get a +40 from it.
For example, +100% defense will give, say, a musketeer +18 defense, while a dragoon would get a +40 from it.
DeletedUser
GBs have the same effect on all units. Damage taken by units (number of health bars) depends on ratio of attack of attacking unit to defense of defensive unit. +100% to attack always increases this ratio 2 times.
DeletedUser
since we are on the subject what do you guys use against 8 long range,i'm having really hard time keeping my troops alive when i face that combo.....
if i use 7 long range and 1 heavy melee will those long range focus on my heavy melee ?
i'm talking about HMA
if i face long range from the same age i lose about 3 of them and thats just not worth it anymore for me
if i use 7 long range and 1 heavy melee will those long range focus on my heavy melee ?
i'm talking about HMA
if i face long range from the same age i lose about 3 of them and thats just not worth it anymore for me
DeletedUser
Not in HMA.
DeletedUser
8 knights, 8 trebuchet or 8 mounted archers. You will take losses from all those options but probably least losses with 8 knights (as they have the highest defence). You can also try wounding the defending trebuchets and not killing them until every trebuchet is wounded - you might find that two wounded trebuchets do a knight less damage than one dead and one unwounded do.
7 field guns and 1 grenadier only works because the grenadier has range 2 (whereas all previous heavy infantry that can only attack adjacent units) so counts as a ranged unit and is targeted before other units.
DeletedUser
Sounds like a bug to me. I dont think anybody would argue that they intentionally implemented a dumber AI for CA.
DeletedUser
If I remember correctly, the AI targets (in order of preference):
It's not a matter of a bug - it's just that the grenadier fits a different rule to other heavy infantry so it gets targeted as a priority. If you use a damaged Field Gun then the AI will target it over an undamaged grenadier but if no units are damaged and the grenadier is the closest unit to the enemy then it will be targeted over other ranged units.
- Damaged units;
- Units with range greater than 1 (short range, long range and grenadiers);
- Cavalry units; and then
- Other units.
It's not a matter of a bug - it's just that the grenadier fits a different rule to other heavy infantry so it gets targeted as a priority. If you use a damaged Field Gun then the AI will target it over an undamaged grenadier but if no units are damaged and the grenadier is the closest unit to the enemy then it will be targeted over other ranged units.
DeletedUser7719
More like:
1) Ranged units (anything without a range of one)
a) damaged
b) closest to attacker
c) farthest from attacker
2) Melee units
a) damaged
b) fastest OR closest to attacker
c) slowest OR farthest from attacker
1) Ranged units (anything without a range of one)
a) damaged
b) closest to attacker
c) farthest from attacker
2) Melee units
a) damaged
b) fastest OR closest to attacker
c) slowest OR farthest from attacker
DeletedUser
Exactly my point. I doubt that the spec given to their devs was "target units with range > 1 first", but more likely: "target ranged units first".
What we see ingame as AI becoming dumber in CA, to me seems just as an effect of a developers' decision which was more convenient in terms of implementation.
I hope everyone agrees that there was no intention in dumbing down AI even more, especially for players in CA who are already able to crush players of lower eras even without this effect (not to say bug
).Like this its way too easy and too boring...