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Analysing the real value of Great Buildings

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
Here's the 9th survey of GB ownership and levels amongst the elite players from two worlds. It's been 2 years since the 8th survey. Methodology is on page 4 of this thread. I only include the top 10 active players from 2 worlds.
Since the last survey we have a few new GBs on the scene. GbG and the antiques dealer had just arrived prior to the 8th survey and may be having an influence on the rankings.

here are the results, in descending order:
2474 Arc
2269 Alcatraz
2068 CdM
2061 AO
2012 Zeus
1948 CoA
1855 TA
1697 CF
1664 Cape
1568 Kraken
1490 ToR
1434 HC
1150 SC
1066 IT
950 Observatory
873 GT
838 TBG
794 LoA
647 HS
639 SMB
638 SG
451 FI
436 SBC
220 Babel
188 TT
187 SV
176 AM
163 DC
162 RFP
100 RAH
72 Atomium
59 TVP
49 Dresden
0 Habitat
0 Gaea
0 SN
0 Lotus Temple
0 Voyager V!
0 Capitol
0 ND
0 Colosseum


The IT has dropped out of the top 10, replaced by the Kraken. The top 3 continues to remain unchanged with the Arc maintaining its long term no 1 position followed by the Alcatraz and CdM.


the biggest advancers (of previous buildings) since the last survey are:

ToR: +613, jumping from 14th to 11th
Arc: +516, extending it's lead at no 1
Observatory: +475, jumping from 20th to 15th.

The biggest decliners are:
IT: -482, leaving the top 10, falling from 9th to 14th
RFP: -242, falling from 21st to 29th
The new GBs since the last survey are the Space Carrier, Galata Tower, and Flying Island. Of the 3, the Space Carrier has the highest points at 1150, currently ranked at 13th.

The jump in the ToR can be explained by the additional goodies it provides through GE which are then sold to the antiques dealer for trade coins and gemstones to bid on and buy the good stuff. Anything with an attack bonus tends to command the highest bids.

The improvement in the Observatory's rankings is curious. One possible explanation is the demand for GbG goods. Under normal circumstances, demand for higher era (ie Arctic Future and above) goods isn't high, given they are not needed for GvG. The only time there is low supply of new era goods in GbG is when the new era has just opened and the the high ranking players progress to that new era. To start off with, there are no new era goods in treasury, but GbG can be very hungry for these goods depending on the number of high era players who have just progressed to the new era. So I guess these players wish to help the guild out by supplementing the Arc treasury goods with Observatory goods.
The other possibile explanation is the need for support pool provided by the Observatory, although given the enormous number of available attack boosts in the game in recent years I'm not sure if maxing out the support pool of GvG sectors will make a big difference to a guild's defence.

There's an impression that those GBs that provide fps without any attack bonus or feature are slowly losing ground, eg. the IT (from 9th to 14th) and the Cape (from 5th to 9th). The Hagia falling from 15th to 19th. Top era players are prioritising other GBs once the top end of the sweet spot has been reached.
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
Here's the 10th survey of GB ownership and levels amongst the elite players from two worlds. It's been 18 months since the 9th survey and over 7 years since the very first one. Methodology is on page 4 of this thread. I only include the top 10 active players each from 2 worlds.
Since the last survey we have a few new GBs on the scene. The AI Core arrived with Jupiter age in 2022 and in recent weeks with we have 3 new GBs on the scene with the opening up of Titan Era.
In recent months GE has expanded with a new level 5 which requires extra defence bonuses for players who choose to fight through the level 5 encounters.



Here are the latest numbers, in descending order:

3142 Arc
2454 Alcatraz
2417 CdM
2367 AO
2356 Zeus
2249 CoA
2153 TA
1987 CF
1931 Cape
1771 Kraken
1687 ToR
1606 HC
1400 Observatory
1294 SC
1143 TBG
1120 GT
1050 IT
751 HS
695 FI
537 LoA
498 AI Core
387 SBC
379 SMB
240 SG
239 SV
208 DC
175 RFP
172 Atomium
161 TVP
92 Babel
91 Centaurus
82 AM
21 Pegasus
0 Hydra
0 TT
0 RAH
0 Dresden
0 Habitat
0 Gaea
0 SN
0 Lotus Temple
0 Voyager V!
0 Capitol
0 ND
0 Colosseum



There has not been any change whatsoever to the top 12 compared to the last survey of 18 months ago.



the biggest advancers since the last survey are:

Arc: +668, continuing to extend its lead further at no 1

Observatory: +450, continuing the rise noted at the last survey and now jumping from 15th to 13th, having languished at 20th at the Jan 2020 survey.

CdM: +349, maintaining its no 3 rank.

And a notable mention to the Atomium which has the largest percentage increase in points of 139%, rising from 31st to 28th in the rankings.



The biggest decliners are:
Star Gazer: -398, falling from 21st to 24th.
SMB: -260, going from 20th to 23rd. The SMB had been hovering between 14th and 16th in the ratings from late 2016 to early 2020 but then fell to 20th in early 2022 and further, to 23rd in the current report.

The TT, RAH and Dresden now join the expanding club of wooden spooners, that is, GBs that are not currently owned by any of the elite players. The TT in particular has had the biggest fall from grace of these 3 GBs. The TT tends to be more useful for players who hang around in the lower eras and I would like to think that any competent top ranked elite player can adequately farm current era goods without the need for the TT.

There hasn't been much change in the SBC and the DC which provide defensive boost which can be helpful for players fighting through Level 5 of GE. It may well be that their rankings may have deteriorated further in the absence of this new game feature given these GBs have been consistently falling in the rankings in recent years since the arrival of the GT.


As mentioned in the last report of 2022, and commentary from Emberguard shortly thereafter, the improvement of the Observatory back then may have been due to the increasing treasury demands of current era goods to feed the hungry GbG buildings. This observation is further supported by the latest survey in the results of the other treasury GBs, with the Arc extending its points lead substantially, and the Observatory and Atomium jumping in the ranks. The AI Core, released after the last survey, also generates treasury goods and has landed at 21st spot. Of these 4 treasury generating GBs, it seems the Arc continues to be the priority for the elites, presumably due to the attractive benefits it also provides to individual players.

And finally, we're only a few weeks into the Titan era with 3 new GBs, with the Centaurus proving to be very popular, with prospective owners throwing large amounts of fps into the new GBs out there to get BPs, such that owners don't need to bother throwing their GB to their swap or 1.9 threads and the further growth of these GBs are being limited by insufficient BPs. It is very early days but I think the Centaurus has a high probability of entering the top 10 in the next year or so, given that all GBs with an attack bonus (Zeus, CdM, CoA) are in this group.
 
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Emberguard

Legend
Here's the 10th survey of GB ownership and levels amongst the elite players from two worlds. It's been 18 months since the 9th survey and over 7 years since the very first one. Methodology is on page 4 of this thread. I only include the top 10 active players each from 2 worlds
For reference, page 4 method:
As per my last post, I’ve just completed a brief review of popular GBs owned by the leading players (according to points) in Mt Killmore and Dinegu. The scoring criteria I’ve used is as follows:
A GB at level 1 scores 1; at level 2 scores 2, and so on. No GBs were in the mud. If the player doesn’t have a particular GB, score is 0.
The scores are tallied according to GB. I included the top 10 players for Mt Killmore and the same for Dinegu, making for a sample of 20.

Dividing the numbers by 20 for average level. Won’t be accurate of course as my math isn’t taking into account how many are actually built, just was curious what it’d come out to:
Here are the latest numbers, in descending order:

3142 Arc (157.1)
2454 Alcatraz (122.7)
2417 CdM (120.85)
2367 AO (118.35)
2356 Zeus (117.8)
2249 CoA (112.45)
2153 TA (107.65)
1987 CF (99.35)
1931 Cape (96.55)
1771 Kraken (88.55)
1687 ToR (84.25)
1606 HC (80.3)
1400 Observatory (70)
1294 SC (64.7)
1143 TBG (57.15)
1120 GT (56)
1050 IT (52.5)
1050 LoA (52.5)
751 HS (37.55)
695 FI (34.75)
498 AI Core (24.9)
387 SBC (19.35)
379 SMB (18.95)
240 SG (12)
239 SV (11.95
208 DC (10.4)
175 RFP (8.75)
172 Atomium (8.6)
161 TVP (8.05)
92 Babel (4.6)
91 Centaurus (4.55)
82 AM (4.1)
21 Pegasus (1.05)
0 Hydra
0 TT
0 RAH
0 Dresden
0 Habitat
0 Gaea
0 SN
0 Lotus Temple
0 Voyager V!
0 Capitol
0 ND
0 Colosseum

As mentioned in the last report of 2022, and commentary from Emberguard shortly thereafter, the improvement of the Observatory back then may have been due to the increasing treasury demands of current era goods to feed the hungry GbG buildings. This observation is further supported by the latest survey in the results of the other treasury GBs, with the Arc extending its points lead substantially, and the Observatory and Atomium jumping in the ranks. The AI Core, released after the last survey, also generates treasury goods and has landed at 21st spot. Of these 4 treasury generating GBs, it seems the Arc continues to be the priority for the elites, presumably due to the attractive benefits it also provides to individual players.

And finally, we're only a few weeks into the Titan era with 3 new GBs, with the Centaurus proving to be very popular, with prospective owners throwing large amounts of fps into the new GBs out there to get BPs, such that owners don't need to bother throwing their GB to their swap or 1.9 threads and the further growth of these GBs are being limited by insufficient BPs. It is very early days but I think the Centaurus has a high probability of entering the top 10 in the next year or so, given that all GBs with an attack bonus (Zeus, CdM, CoA) are in this group.
It’ll be interesting to see if the Hydra enters the top 10 players scene by then and how it compares to the other Titan Great Buildings for those players. It provides treasury goods, defending army and attacking stats. So while it’s expensive to level, it provides a bit of everything.

Of course if the top already has high level Arc, Observatory and/or AI Core and/or Atomium and Event/Special Buildings providing Treasury Goods, they may not be looking for the treasury part of Hydra and look at it in the same light as Terracotta Army. Observatory is still a relatively cheap Guild Goods building to raise up a bit higher if needed

Hydra is definitely a more attractive option than the Atomium if someone was looking for a Guild Treasury Great Building though. So I’m not expecting any new Atomium’s to be built (at the top) without the Hydra coming onto the scene first.

If a high ranking player was considering the AI Core but hadn’t placed it yet, the Hydra would certainly be a tempting alternative option for those players. Special Goods aren’t that hard to gather, they just take time. The Special Goods part of the AI building makes a lot of sense if you’re just entering into Space Age Mars, but if you’re far enough through the techtree you’re not going to get much use out of the Special Goods part of the AI’s production as it only works on previous age Special Goods. Then it becomes just a Treasury Goods building. While Hydra will aways have a use with its Army Boosts

I definitely think Hydra could be a major contender with Centaurus by next year. Especially if we see more Defending Army boost features added to the game. It‘s just too early to see if it’ll be a top player priority given enough time or if they have too many competing options for it to make the cut. It could be lack of BluePrints resulting in no Hydra’s yet. Or it could be priority being on the Centaurus resulting in no Hydra

Titan Great Buildings I’m not expecting to get the same “score” as other ages given the unique mechanics for them making level 15 / 19 / 22 equivalent of lvl 100 (army boosts wise)

Getting the Titans each to Level 100 would be the equivalent to:

Pegasus / Centaurus / Hydra
Level 100 / 100 / 100
St Basil / Zeus / Terracotta
Level 950 / 750 / 570
 
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Dead-Eye

General
I would expect to see all 3 new gb,s in the top 10 on the next report, not just because of their small size and awesome bonuses but cos they would look way cool all lined up together.

Cheers for the post Numbers. Awesome work!
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
thanks for the feedback rick and Emberguard. I agree there are lots of confounders and caveats that need to be considered and to address each one would probably fill a tome. That said, Emberguard's figures shows how high Arcs are getting amongst the top players. The equivalency calculations are also compelling, which shows how much bang for buck owners of these GBs will be getting, including a small footprint, in spite of the high fp outlay.

I'm also working on a similar audit of the top FE players for the two worlds given this is a popular era where some don't wish to progress from, for various reasons.
 

Emberguard

Legend
The equivalency calculations are also compelling, which shows how much bang for buck owners of these GBs will be getting, including a small footprint, in spite of the high fp outlay.
I think goods would be a much bigger concern than forge points for these buildings.
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
Now for something a little different, the following are the points and ranks for the top tier FUTURE ERA players in the two worlds. I thought this may be of interest given the relatively large number of horizontal style players who stay in FE for a very very long time, many of whom may have decided to never progress to AF and beyond. This style of horizontal play in FE can be beneficial to guilds which regularly participate in GvG given the high value of FE sectors but with the need to constantly feed these activities with treasury goods, so the treasury GBs of these top tier FE players can be very useful.
The points are expected to be lower than for the very top tier players of the usual survey, so I will be comparing ranks, not points in the comments below.

Here's the list:

2450 Arc
2075 CdM
2037 Alcatraz
2014 Zeus
1984 AO
1920 CoA
1737 CF
1643 TA
1559 Kraken
1497 Cape
1414 Observatory
1266 HC
1197 ToR
817 SBC
760 IT
721 TBG
719 GT
634 LoA
625 HS
461 AI Core
423 SMB
404 SG
366 RFP
364 SC
255 TT
230 FI
219 DC
181 Atomium
170 SV
166 Babel
71 RAH
64 Dresden
56 TVP
22 Gaea
10 Centaurus
8 Hydra
0 AM
0 Capitol
0 LT
0 ND
0 SN
0 Habitat
0 Voyager V!
0 Pegasus



On first glance there appear to be more similarities in the rankings than difference, with the top 10 comprising mostly the same group as the survey of the highest ranking players.

The GB with the largest rise in rank compared to the usual survey is the Truce Tower, ranking 24th here whilst it is a wooden spooner in the other survey, being an equal 34th there alongside the other wooden spooners. Thus, it ranks 10 levels higher amongst the FE elite. This shouldn't be too surprising given my earlier comments that the Truce Tower is more valuable to lower era players than those playing in the highest era.

Next with a rise of 6 levels is the SBC, ranked here at 14th compared to 22nd. Not sure why that would be. Maybe the FE elites have a greater interest in completing GE level 5?

Of note, there doesn't seem to be much difference in the rankings of the treasury goods GBs here compared to the top elites. Aside from the Arc which is at no 1 in both surveys, the other treasury GBs only have a modest increase in rankings at best, being zero for the Atomium, and 2 for the AI Core and the Observatory. This very modest improvement appears a little surprising, as I would have expected a much higher ranking given the key role FE treasury goods plays in a guild's GvG activities.

At the other side of the ledger are the GBs which have a lower ranking amongst the FE elites compared to the top tier players. The largest drop is the SC, which is ranked 23rd here but 14th amongst the top tier group, representing a loss of 9 levels. The most likely reason is that its 'special resources' are only available for players in AF and above, so are not accessible to FE players.

Overall, I hope this survey provides interesting insights into the strategies and preferences of the elite Future Era players compared to the top tier players, shedding some insights into the GB choices that these players make. With the passage of time, game developments, and new GBs always arriving on the scene, it will be interesting to see how players choose to select and prioritise their GBs.
 
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numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
Titan Great Buildings I’m not expecting to get the same “score” as other ages given the unique mechanics for them making level 15 / 19 / 22 equivalent of lvl 100 (army boosts wise)

Getting the Titans each to Level 100 would be the equivalent to:

Pegasus / Centaurus / Hydra
Level 100 / 100 / 100
St Basil / Zeus / Terracotta
Level 950 / 750 / 570
I suspect the Pegasus is going to be mostly of interest for players who wish to complete level 5 of GE by fighting. As Emberguard points out it provides way more defence bonus than a similarly levelled SBC and with a smaller footprint. Another metric to consider is a comparison with the level 2 Ritual Flame or equivalent. The Pegasus only needs to get to level 6 to have the same defence per footprint as the level 2 RF, so players may be able to delete their RFs (or watchfires) when the Pegasus outshines the defensive efficiency of these buildings, and use the spare space for other shiny things :)
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
I wonder if any of the usual GBs that helps with either attack or defence (that is, CdM, Zeus, AO, CoA, TA, Kraken, SBC, DC) may slip in the rankings by the time of the next survey as players focus on the more effective new Titan GBs to do the same work.
 

Nidwin

Sergeant
Fascinating list and thanks for your hard work numbrcrunchr.

What's funny is that I put up Dresden, Babel, GT and AM past weeks (level 1/2) as I intend to have all 4 of them at 80 in three Years to be able to add extra levels to SAT GB's when they produce Titan goods (unrefined goods).

It would be interesting to compare GB's up in cities from Elite big Guilds versus top Solo players (1 person's Guild).

Dropped HC and TA quite some time ago and SC is probably going to go too at some point while they are way above RFP and SV, in the lists, that I consider top endgame GB's.
 
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Nidwin

Sergeant
I wonder if any of the usual GBs that helps with either attack or defence (that is, CdM, Zeus, AO, CoA, TA, Kraken, SBC, DC) may slip in the rankings by the time of the next survey as players focus on the more effective new Titan GBs to do the same work.
I doubt it because of your ranking system and the amount of required Titan goods at some point. Over an x amount of next surveys it's possible but that will also depend on future GB's and how important they will be or not for Elite players. Time will tell of course.
 

numbrcrunchr

Master Corporal
I doubt it because of your ranking system and the amount of required Titan goods at some point. Over an x amount of next surveys it's possible but that will also depend on future GB's and how important they will be or not for Elite players. Time will tell of course.
Yes the amount of goods required are huge but that is a one off cost only and no longer comes into play once the GB is in the mud. I have had a quick peek at the top 10 in M world International and everyone in the top 10 has at least 2 of the Titan Era GBs, and 8 of those 10 have all 3. I believe BPs are still in short supply so that is the main factor limiting the levels of those GBs although I believe that supply will improve in the coming months.
 
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